Welcome to Future Lab where we explore the cutting edge of healthspan and wellbeing. I'm Danny Urbinder and with me is my co host, Dr. Denise Finesse. Hello. And Trevor Hendy. Morning, Dan. Good to see you. Now, Trev, today we've got a life mastery episode. So this is where we explore. Explore and talk to people who, uh, really exemplify this idea of optimizing healthspan.

And today we've really got someone that really exemplifies that to the extreme. Now I know he's a good friend of yours. He also happens to be one of the world's greatest athletes, 11 time world, uh, world surfing champion Kelly Slater. Let's make him blush. Hey, just let's say, Oh, he's, he's a legend. He's amazing.

He's world's best. Um, absolutely. Super, super stoked to have this. So look. Kelly could easily do a masterclass as well, you know, and take us through all sorts of different things. But we really want to get to know Kel today, mate. So good to see you sitting on the screen there and your studio looks a little bit nicer than ours.

Yeah.  Beautiful.  Yeah. Mine's not bad. I'm up in, I'm in Monterey, uh, Carmel, California. Um, I was just visiting some friends up here for a couple of days and, um, flying back down to Southern California this afternoon.  Beautiful, mate. So this is pretty cool for me. Um, and, you know, for people that don't know our connection, we've been in each other's world for a long time, quite close, shared a lot of, um, your journey in depth and what you, you know, you into my journey as well.

And I think we could probably Safely say that we'd each call on each other for anything. You know, it's been quite a crazy, amazing ride together. And I think in all the podcasts you've been on and I've been on, we've probably mentioned each other quite a few times, but it's the first time it's  auspicious moment.

We've actually sat down and had a little deep dive conversation together. So I don't know if you've picking up on it, but it's like, Oh, this is a pretty cool opportunity to go somewhere unique and maybe share a few things that, um, aren't readily known.  Yeah, for sure. Um, yeah, I talk behind your back all the time, Trevor, to lots of people. 

Um, all good stuff, all good stuff. But, uh, yeah, we, we, uh, I mean, we're going on close to 30 years now we've known each other, something like that, 25, 30 years. Um, but, uh, yeah, we don't, we haven't done a lot of, um, sort of actual like business work together, but we've done a lot of work together over the years.

And, um, you know, for those of you that don't know, Trev's been like a big brother to me in a lot of ways, and, and helped guide me through a lot of the, the, the, the traps and turmoil and things that, um, that, that can happen in your life that  maybe he went through before I did, and, um, was able to help me with, with my own journey. 

That's um, beautifully said mate, and I even get a little, almost a little emotional with that because that's how I've always seen it, always seen you as a brother, a little brother and a, and a mate that I would do anything for, and of course our journey's taken us all around the world and some interesting things, but I thought, and, and that other thing that I probably went around, you know, I did a lap around that block a couple of years in front of you, you know, we had so many incredible things that we'd sort of shared in similarities in life.

So it's been a crazy serendipitous relationship and connection. Um, but I thought today we would tag this episode ingesting greatness. And I'm going to say a few things because I've, you know, as well as being in the inside with you, I've also get to be on the outside a little bit and sort of see you from a mateship point of view on the outside.

And one of the things that I've found incredible that I hope people get a lot of this out of, because I think my broader intention for this episode is to highlight how you've broken the programming. You've just basically rewritten records. You've rewritten programs. You've rewritten how to approach things.

You're really out of the box. You've never been in the box. You're hard to get in the box. If anyone's looking for you in the box, they won't find you there. You know, you're even from time perspective, you're always on your own time. doing your own thing, you're actually pretty damn special at that. It's almost like a superpower that you don't really want to play the other games that are going on.

And I love that about you. I adore that about you because whilst that makes it challenging sometimes for you, because you got your own unique rhythm, it's also what's made you incredibly, um, unique and special and do amazing things. And I thought what we might cover through the theme of this today for people listening is ingesting greatness, because you've chosen to.

To, um, specifically ingest certain things in your life, thoughts, emotions, passions, dreams, nutrition, foods, all that sort of stuff, um, relationships, but you've also chosen to not ingest a lot of things that other people have just automatically ingested, whether that's, you know,  toxic substances, whether it's things that, um, you know, you, you've cleared a lot of thoughts out.

You've actually cleared a lot of emotions out over the period of time. So I thought it might be a great way to follow a little vein of things right through, but built on ingesting greatness with the backdrop of the, the environment that you grow up in. So that's kind of what I want to cover. Does that make any sense at all?

I've made sense of my head when I thought about it.  Yeah, I got it. So mate.  Let's go back to start with, because one of the things that, um, when we very first got together, which was on a golf course, we, you know, we sat in a golf buggy together with Occy and Shmoo and did a round of golf. That was when we first got to connect.

And we spoke about a lot of things, but within a couple of hours, you'd already acknowledged and checked in with me about the competitive monster that was inside. So let's go back Because the competitive monster is a double edged sword. It can allow you to conquer the world, but at some point in time, you've got to understand what it's really doing.

So let's go back and, um, and have a look at where did this all start? Like, where was, give us a brief rundown of the early days in Florida, mom, dad, your brothers, just what was brewing in you that created this thing that we're going to get into today.  Yeah. Um, a double edged sword is probably a good.  Um,  a good metaphor analogy, it better to have a sword than no sword and you're battling in life.

Um, but, but what is it better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war?  Yeah, for sure. Um,  I, yeah, I was born and raised in Cocoa Beach, Florida. It was kind of a,  sort of a, I guess it was kind of a party town. Um, my parents moved there. My mom moved there when she was late teens, maybe my dad when he was around in his around 20 or early 20s. 

My dad was born in Florida. My mom was born in Maryland and then they ended up meeting in Cocoa Beach. Um, and then I have an older brother, Sean, who was born three years prior to me. I was born in 72 and then the younger brother who was born in 78.  We basically lived in Cocoa Beach our whole lives. Our parents  had a bit of a troubled marriage.

Um, so family life wasn't super fun. Um, just unstable, you know, and, um, my dad was drinking a lot. My mom was, um, a little crazy with, uh, the, uh, state of our lives in a way, I guess it was. Probably tough feeling like she was more or less kind of doing the raising of the three kids on her own, even though my dad was in the house too.

And um,  uh, but we all, the one thing we all love was the beach. Um,  everybody in the family loves to go to the beach.  Everybody loved to fish  and everyone surfed except for my mom.  Um, but my mom liked to lay on the beach longer than any of us. So we were just beach rats, uh, from the time we were born. And, um,  I have, I have a picture of my older brother and I, when maybe I was like three and he was like six and we're in the bathtub and you can see our suntans. 

Like I was  dark, dark, dark. Like, I looked like I was black except for my butt, which was white. And, um, and my tan was so, I mean, I just, I literally just spent all the waking hours in the sun in a pair of shorts. So I was just really, really tan my whole childhood sunburn all the time. And then it, you know, eventually it just turned into a tan.

And, um,  I guess, thankfully we had some  little bit of dark skin. My mom's got a little Middle Eastern in her and my, my dad has maybe a little bit of Italian, I think. And, um, so for some reason we were able to.  But being in the sun in Florida all year long and, um, but we, we just started surfing from a young age.

I mean,  I, everyone asked me when I started surfing, I don't really know. I'm sure my dad, because he surfed a bit, he wasn't a hardcore surfer, but he liked to surf. And I am sure he put me in, me and my brothers each on boards when we were, Less than two years old. Uh, but about five, six years old, I kind of started surfing on my own and got a hardboard when I was like eight, eight years old, started competing that year.

My brother started competing about a year before me.  And then I was just kind of, I don't know. I was raised around that. I did other sports.  I played, uh, played basketball and football and baseball, like most young kids in America. But, uh, I, I love surfing so much. It just took over from everything by the time I was about. 

And, um, I like to do the other stuff because I, I was, I was alright at, I was pretty good at, um, in the field at baseball. I was pretty good at football, but I was probably too small. Um, but I understood the games really good and, you know, like, it, it'd be like, you know, I'll show you growing up with rugby.

It's, uh, you know,  there's, especially football and baseball in the States, you, you just grow up understanding the game really well. So I, I got into those, but my dad was my coach on my football team and I would skip practice to go surfing. And I think that was about the time I realized that surfing was a lot more important than all the other things.

And that was at about 10, 11 years old. And, uh, so I started competing at eight. I turned professional at 18. Um,  uh, yeah, there, there's a whole lot of history that goes on before and after that too. So, so I don't know, I don't want to get bogged down too much in details about life, but that was kind of, my parents split up when I was like 11 years old.

My dad still lived in town, so we saw him all the time. But, um,  uh, a lot of that formed, I think a lot of that, you know, as Trevor and I have been through a lot of, uh, going through the emotional side of life and obviously family is your, your, your core creation and forms who you are. So I think a lot of the situations there, me being a younger brother, having your older brother had to keep up with all the time and compete with, you know,  We, we didn't compete head to head a lot. 

I think we were constantly competing because we, we, we competed for everything around the house. And that kind of created the basis for me. And I think, I think coming from a, not the happiest of home lives,  I got really, really obsessive about surfing. And that became the thing that,  Yeah, great mate. Um, I think, uh, I'll, I'll go back to that in a second, but  11 time world champion, 55 career titles.

I think it is that you're up to your one pipeline right on, you know, just before your 50th birthday. Pretty crazy. So there's a pipe was my, uh, 56th. 56. There you go. Okay. 56 career titles. So that must mean if you, if you're the greatest of all time done that, uh, So Florida must be like the best waves in the world, right?

That you learn how to surf in? Best waves, best waves on earth. Yeah, everyone should move there.  So tell us a little bit about that before I go back to the other sort of family stuff. Tell us a bit about how did those waves form the surfer that you are, the athlete that you became? Because for those that are not picking up on our sarcasm, Florida, flat, small, um, very inconsistent waves. 

Yeah, basically,  for people who don't study weather patterns like that, most east coasts of most  land masses have smaller waves than the west coast, because all the storms go from west to east. So they're always pushing the energy from the west. Um, so you're kind of in the lee of the wind, if you will, like if you're, if each country was an island, you're on the leeward side of the island on the east side, um, sort of metaphorically speaking.

Um, and so you're, you're getting the backside of the energy of the storms and the swells. So, and, and on top of that, Florida is, um, it's a, it's a very low lying place. I think the highest point of land in our state is like three or 400 feet high above sea level. Thank you.  And that's not even near the coast.

That's way inland and in the north part of Florida. And, um, so we, we have all sandy beaches, no rock points like you got in Australia. And, and, uh,  I, you know, sometimes we go fishing offshore and you'll go miles from the, miles and miles out where you can, maybe you can't even see the land and my friends free dive down to the bottom and spear fish.

So it's not very deep. You know, it's, it's, um,  and the West Coast of Florida is even shallower. It's basically about, um, it's about a foot deep every mile you go out. So 20 miles out, it's only like 20 feet deep in some places. So it's a, it's an interesting place, but because of that continental shelf that drags a lot of the swell energy out of the, out of the waves.

And, um, so whatever swell we do get is even slower and smaller because of that. But. In my mind, it was a good thing because it's almost like learning how to do something in slow motion.  You know, for anyone who's ever golfed before I go, I was golfing today. Um, for anyone who's ever golfed, you want to get the big club and hit the driver as far as you can, but actually it doesn't help your swing.

The best thing they say is to start by putting short putts and then longer putts and then chipping and then hitting your irons and working your way up from slower to faster. And that's how you kind of build a good foundation for yourself. And, um, surf wise, I think it's the same. You, you, you can't go and start on a big wave.

You can't learn how to surf on a 20 foot wave. Um, but you want to have a little bit of energy, but I think the one thing about Florida, we have,  uh, I don't know how many world champions we've had from the state and there aren't that many world champions in the sport overall, but we have a big percentage of them from Florida.

And I, I really think it's because of the determination and the hunger you get from a lack of, it's like, it's like being hungry your whole life. And then you find a place that has a big bounty of food on the table. And, um, so you, you appreciate it a lot more. Um, I, I am now spoiled in my life because I get to surf all the best waves in the world.

But as a kid, I didn't have much of that. And it was like maybe a summer trip for a month or two. And then maybe one week trips a couple times a year. And the rest, I was hoping we had a little bit of wind to create a wave. So it's, uh, it's always better leaving Florida for surf than being there. So at that early stage of your life, then when obviously you had suboptimal surf, that's a lesson that you obviously have now that you've taken with you.

Did you learn that lesson early on maybe to set you up for other things as it was coming further into your career? You 

mean specifically around the surf? Was that an early lesson for you? So when you were obviously surfing small waves and you might've been frustrated at that stage, that might not have been bigger, but obviously it's a life lesson that you start off slow. You build on that. Is that something that you took with you early on in your career? 

Yeah. Well, I just, I feel like  any kind of wave energy was good. So it was all a bonus for me. What might not look that great to someone else looked awesome to me. And, and I was kind of scared of big waves anyways, cause I. I sort of had a,  maybe a near drowning situation happened when I was a kid. So I was a little bit scared of, of, uh, big surf when I was younger anyways.

And so I was, I was super happy when it was small and there was any kind of energy, uh, whereas some of the bigger guys might be too big for the waves or they couldn't get moving. And, and I, I feel like I had learned how to really tap in.  When you're spending day after day obsessing about something and, and your mind is constantly thinking about it when you're going to bed at night, you, you learn how to tap into that thing.

And, and, um, uh, I think that's probably been my biggest, biggest gift. Surf wise is to learn how to tap the energy of a wave in the right way, in the most efficient way. And so it definitely helped me. within my career and, and especially through competition. I think, um, the bit too, that we've talked a lot about is in that moment, you just talked about how the lack, the lack of swell leads you to a hunger, but also I love what you just had.

There's almost like an optimism or you could see  any energies, good energy, Like I can make anything work. It's breaking today. You know, I can go out and I can surf it. So I think you had a level of appreciation that, Oh, I can make something work from almost nothing. And there's, I love a story that I heard you tell a long time ago that the pro tour came to town and Everyone was watching the surfers on the, you know, like, uh, I think Tom Carroll and Barton Lynch and all that crew, maybe Tom Curran, everyone was watching the surfers ride the waves.

And they asked you something along the lines of, wow, are you really impressed by what you see? Is that, is that right? What was your, what was your answer, your thought on that? Because I think this talks to what you're talking about now. 

I'm not sure what age you're getting at here or, or, or what context. So can you tell me a little more what you think it was when you, I think I might know what you're saying, but I don't want to get ahead of myself. It was about when you saw what wasn't being done  on the way. Yeah. Oh yeah. So when I was like,  I think when I was 20 years old, I remember I was, I was in a car with Mark Warren, who was an Aussie.

He was one of the original bronze Aussies. He worked for Quicksilver and he did some, he was, he also did some TV and press stuff down in, in Sydney. And, um, I would, I used to hang out, I lived on Northern Beaches for a while, and  Mark was, uh,  you know, co worker, I guess, because he worked for Quicksilver, but he, he interviewed me for a few times, a few times on TV there, and  we were driving to, I think I was at, I forget if I was at the Pro Junior at Nairobi or at the Coke Classic at Nairobi, but we were driving to or from that beach and, and, uh, he says, Oh, what do you think the surfing?

The surfing has been great, hasn't it? And I said, actually, I'm not that impressed. And he goes, Are you serious? And I go, Yeah, I just, I just don't think the level's as high as it should be. Because in my mind, I used to, You know, my favorite surf was Tom Curran, who I thought, I thought no one could touch Tom Curran.

And then, you know, right behind him to me was like Aki and Tom Carroll and Martin Potter. Um, but Tom sort of set this bar that, uh, especially for I'm sure we were a little biased because he was American, but he had this flow and this style and his surfing that I didn't think anyone else  could tap into like, like he could.

And he looked like he was born to, to flow with a wave. And so I would spend a lot of time imagining  how to ride a wave in the perfect way. And a lot of times I would sort of picture Tom Curran when I was a kid,  but then at, at around 18, you know, in my teenage years, we started to do a lot more aerials and, um, And, um, tailslides and reverse 360s and stuff like that, the, the maneuvers started to change, the approach to surfing started to change.

And so that was kind of leaving that whole era behind, um, as far as how radical surfing was, was getting or the direction it was going to be going. And so my, my mind was probably, you know, five or 10 years ahead of, of what surfing was because I could see where it was going. And, um, so I, I really,  I think part of that was a little bit of a,  uh, protective coding for me to, to try and  I had to, I had to set this bar beyond what anything was and try to try to get to it, you know, and that was probably a part of that messaging to myself. 

So that's like 30 something years ago that you set that bar pretty high. 30, 35 years ago. 35 years ago. I just wanted to say, and then go to the question, Denise, but, um,  you, you were imagining what could be done and you were seeing what wasn't being done, you know, talking about ingesting things, you know, like you were seeing what, what wasn't being done.

And that was a level of innovation. So there's something pretty brave and bold and, or it almost sound cocky and arrogant to say, Oh, best in the world. They're all the best in the world, but. It's pretty, it's not very impressive to me. I love this quality. I see it in Elon Musk a lot, you know, like this quality of, no, why would we stay here when we could go there?

You know? Um, so, so tell us about just quickly and we'll, and we'll come back that imagining all that, um, that innovation, that seeing what's not being done  that I would say is held you instead in everything in your life. It wouldn't that be a central key theme in, in right from golf and, you know, playing guitar and being in a band and right through to your health and through to the friends that you hang out with in the places that you play like that, seeing things that could be done the way the world should be run.

This is a big theme in your life that started pretty early.  Yeah, I think so. I, 

it's, it's funny. Um, I was thinking about this the other day because I grew up, like I said, with an older brother competing at everything and we drove each other  mad as kids, um, and  no matter what you said or did, it was wrong. And, um, and, and the other one would have to outdo you. And, and so I think there, and, and then on top of that, you know, my parents, my parents didn't get along great.

And, um,  um, you know, there's certain, there's certain things that happen with your parents that form who you are to some degree, obviously. And,  I remember,  um, saying how  I was telling my girlfriend, uh, not long ago how I only ever remember seeing my parents like hug or kiss. I think once, once or twice. Um, they just didn't have that kind of relationship, you know?

And, um, and I kind of like,  I felt like I missed that as a kid, you know, I wish they had that or whatever. And, um,  and, and they, they did fight a lot and I was the middle being the middle kid, um,  I became kind of a mediator between them. In fact, I think if I know that if it wasn't for me, they would have broken up a long time prior to when they did.

I, my mom, uh,  my mom wanted to, uh, To separate from my dad when I was young, when I was maybe seven or eight years old and I begged her not to and so they stay together longer and I was, I was always kind of this mediator,  the flip side of that is that, um, you know, when you see both sides of things, you can also argue the counterpoint, even if you don't believe it and, um, you know, just it's, it's almost like a, um, a mental exercise. 

Uh, to, to try and see all sides of something and, um,  it can be to your detriment sometimes, but it's also good because  you can start to try to see other perspectives and point of views. And, you know, Trevor, you and I have talked about that a lot, but, um, so, you know, sometimes you'll debate something just to get the other side of it.

Maybe you don't even know what you think in something, but. Um, I did a lot of that as a kid because my parents weren't getting along and I was trying to understand what I was living in, I guess, and I, I, I think I just did that subconsciously. It wasn't like a conscious decision, but I was always trying to understand the other person. 

Trying to resolve it.  Yeah, so the ocean is very scary and be, can be quite dangerous. Um, I'm a city girl. I grew up in Melbourne and always dreamed of surfing. And then when I moved down to Janjuk, one of my first experiences, first experience of surfing was, um,  Southside, you know, Bell's beach. And it was huge.

It was, it was really stupid of me, but I was very confident. I love the ocean. And I just had this picture of me being this like surfer chick. Anyway, it didn't go well. Uh, ended up like paddling out the back just to get my breath. I thought I was going to drown. Long story short, when I eventually got in, I like crawled up the sand like a drowned rat, just dragging the board like with the leg rope.

Um, but it made me have a whole new respect for the ocean. Cause I actually thought for a moment I might die. I can just imagine the things and the experience if you've had, obviously you didn't jump in stupidly like I did, but you would have just, how do you connect with the ocean? Because I'm sure there's plenty of times where You're almost risking your life.

Is that true? Or am I just I just had a really bad experience.  Um,  you should have started in Florida Yes! I  know! I heard you say that! And I was like, why didn't I start in Florida? Because I had great, I had this wonderful vision of me being this amazing surfer chick. It didn't work out. We've got Port Phillip back in town.

Plus the water's a lot warmer in Florida too. Yeah, it was freezing. It was freezing. Yeah, I mean  I, I was talking, I was playing golf yesterday and, and the caddy at the place where golfing at a place called Cypress points, one of the greatest golf course in the world. And, um, the caddy has been there for, I don't know how many years, but he's telling me about the waves he's seen and the different swells over the different years and people who had drowned.

He had heard about, and he was telling me about this big swell a few years ago that took out a bunch of, um, trees and some of the road and. how these three people in a family had died. Um, the wife got swept in. The, the, the husband went to try and save her. He drowned. The son jumped in to try to help them and he disappeared.

The three people in a family  killed. Um, and, and probably from,  you know, they might not even have, uh, Had they had someone with them that understood it, if they had Trevor there, I think they'd, they'd all still be alive right now. Um,  it's just understanding the patterns in the ocean and where waves break and where the dangers are, where currents are or aren't, where the deep places are, where the reef or shallow spots are.

Once you learn those things, the ocean's a pattern, you know, there's a pattern to it. So when, when, when we're calling swells, We all with this well coming is 10 ft 12 seconds or 10 ft 15 seconds. And so you have an understanding of how strong and how big those waves are going to be, um, depending on the wind and tides.

You have an understanding of what different spots are going to be working on that swell and what it'll look like. You can already kind of picture it in your mind after having been in those places a million times before and seeing it like that. Um, so it's, it's really, uh, you have to work your way up.

Okay. And, um, you know, you were mentioning danger being a part of life for, for surfers or us or whatever. Um, that's a part of the attraction, obviously.  Um,  there's a,  there's a certain,  my best friend, Shane Dorian and I used to have this quote that we'd love from a Formula One driver. And it was, you're never as real as when you might die.

And then all your truth comes out, you know, all your, all the things that you.  you really put yourself in danger and you become very present. Um,  and, and some people get that from seeing a shark. Um, some people get that from riding a big wave or driving a car fast or whatever, but  there is some kind of attraction there for people.

Um, and I, and, and funny enough, I just have, I have a four month old son right now and you're, um, you're,  you're desires to be around and in that kind of energy definitely change when you're, when you have young kids. Uh, and, and sometimes, sometimes recently I've, I have these, uh, crazy dreams too, where I get, or like even daydreams where I have like the weirdest, most strange fears come up in my mind of situations I'll never put myself or my child in, but like, what if that happened?

And like this weird subconscious stuff coming out. But I think it's because I have put myself in so many exciting or dangerous or whatever situations in my life over the years. And, and  honestly, that's, there's a mystery in it. And that stuff's really fun and exciting and, um, and, and, uh, sort of irreplaceable. 

Um,  and it's, it's,  I guess just doing that is kind of  the energy of that is riding a wave. You know, the energy of that is experiencing something that maybe no one has experienced or some, something that you can't get a feel for in any other place in the world or something. But. There's a, there's a definitely an attraction to the fear and the danger.

Just going back to those patterns that you were talking about in the ocean, we've had discussions with Trev in the past when he was racing  and he would see patterns whether internally or within the ocean itself that competitors didn't see. And it sounds like you have that skill as well. And that, that, that has at least in part given you the edge.

Over your competitors, is that something that you cultivated as something that sort of comes naturally to you? Do you see that as something that gave you an edge?  Definitely has given me an edge. Um, I was talking about that with a friend the other day and, and he was saying, Oh, I remember we were in Spain at that one contest and you surfed this thing or whatever.

And, and there's been a few times in my life where Competitively, it's really served me because I'll watch the conditions.  Um, well, I'll give you one that's close to home for Trevor, obviously, is, um, at Kira in 2000.  It was at 12 or 13 at 2012. I won the contest Kira on the Gold Coast to start the year. And I was in the, um,  I think I was in the semifinal with Mick Fanning and the final with Joel Parkinson and that's their home break and they should have the advantage, which they likely would.

They would understand where to sit and which ways to catch a little better than I would because they've spent so much time there. Yeah. But the night before the contest, I went sat on the hill and I watched the waves for about an hour and a half.  And I took note of where all the good waves were. Where they happen to be and which wave in the sets and how long, you know, what I was exactly looking for.

And I, I, I ended up finding myself a lineup based on like this pole on the beach and the corner of this, um, the corner of this building. And when you align those two up, you're right in the exact spot where that wave would start from. And that was exactly what I used the next day. And I, I felt  incredibly confident that I was going to win that because I did feel like I just understood.

The pattern that was happening better than those guys. And I was going to give myself more opportunity to them because of it. And, um, uh, but that that's happened a few times. I was, there's another one in Spain where everyone was surfing this one wave. And I kept telling my buddy, I'm like, that way over there is better and no one's surfing it.

And I decided to go out in my heat and surf there. And I, and I won easily in a heat that should have been a lot tighter. Um,  and you know, sometimes it's just picking, making a certain choice. I was at Bell's beach in, in 2008. I was surfing against B Derbich, um, who's from North Stradbroke. He had me on the ropes in the final  and the tide was coming in and it was about mid tide and, um, almost, almost getting into two thirds high tide and the waves were getting smaller.

And when that happens, The wave that is closer to the point starts to work.  And I had told rabbit Bartholomew, who's a world champion from the seventies. Uh, I told rabbit, I said, Hey, you see those little waves peeling on the point? This is before I paddled out. And he goes, yeah. I said, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, I might have to get a couple of those. 

And we went out in the heat and, and, uh, there's only about seven minutes left. Beads beat me and I saw one or two of those waves. And, and I just thought that's,  One of those ways to do it for me, based on where the numbers are in this heat, and I went over and, and, um, Next thing you know, I got the highest scoring wave of the heat over there, and B didn't follow me to surf over there. 

And that was the difference, and it was just because I had been paying attention, maybe a little bit more thoroughly.  But also a willingness to  Sorry, just a willing, you see those patterns, but it also sounds like you're prepared to move away what, from what others are doing. You're doing your own thing and having the courage to do that.

That doesn't necessarily The problem with that is sometimes you look dumb and you make the wrong choices.  Well, you need both. At least you're honest. And I'm so glad you said Bell's Beach because I have to say it's a very, that part of the world means a lot. I've got family and friends there. My, uh, mum's ashes are scattered down at Janjak, uh, Bird Rock and, uh, my nana, and that's where I'll go.

It's a really special place for me and, um, yeah, I was really hoping you'd say something about Bells Beach. So shout out to all of the locals down there. He's talking about our beach.  Yeah, yeah. I'll tell you, I'll tell you just a really short, I'll try to make it really short. It's that same year that I surfed that contest at Kira with.

With Mick Fanning and Joel Parkinson. The next week we went down  to Bell's Beach. And um,  that was 2012. And Mick and I were quite good friends with a guy named Michael Peterson. Who was a legend in Australian surfing. And Michael died the week prior. We went down to Bell's Beach, it was the 50th?  It's the 50th anniversary of the contest  and Mick and I were the, the, you know, as far as pro surfers go, we were the best friends of Michael that were still on tour and in the modern age when, and, and Mick and I made the final together and the contest was all in honor of, of MP.

And it was a, it was a crazy, kind of a crazy story because Mick and I surfed the heat very differently in the final and Mick beat me. Mick was actually, I sort of look at this philosophically because Mick was closer friends with MP than I was, but we had been friends for a long time. And, um, but it was just a really special thing for me and Mick to kind of celebrate MP on the 50th anniversary, uh, the week after MP had passed away.

And this crazy storm hit right, this crazy windstorm hit right as the final ended.  And they put pictures of all of us, these big, huge, um,  Um,  giant pictures of all the competitors and legends from the, from the sport. They put, they hang all over the  scaffolding and on the walkway and stuff. And after that storm came through, the only one that didn't rip and tear down was MPs. 

And it was crazy. It was just this weird sort of, uh, I don't know. And he let Mick win, because otherwise it would have been you, it would have been you for sure. He must have stepped in.  I've got, um, I've written in my notes here, magic. And so I want to come back to that later, because I want to sort of touch on a little bit further.

But before we do, um. It sounds like in your story, like a lot of people would think, Oh, Kelly's a freak. He's the greatest of all time. He just can go anywhere and win. But when you talk about sitting on the hill at snapper rocks, that's preparation, you know, so what role, what would people not know about how well you prepared throughout your career?

Um, because you're freakishly talented and you've come from a, you had a lot of desire that we've touched on, but preparation was massive. What, what role did preparation play for you and your success?  Yeah.  I mean, preparation, you can talk about preparation over years or over days or over minutes, hours, whatever.

Um, and, and there's different ways to look at that, but I always looked at,  I, I was good at, you know, the, the, the thing I was best at in my life was surfing.  As a young kid, I, I understood that. And I thought I had this, this opportunity to potentially be really, really good at this thing. And, um, In order to do that, my, my mom really kind of beat into me a lot of good lessons.

Um, not physically, just  said them to me.  But she always used to say, she used to talk about my dad's drinking and my, my grandfather drinking and, and. People who did drugs and stuff. And she said, you know, show me one person whose life's better off or their, their success is better because they drank or did drugs.

She's like, you're never going to find that. And she used to tell me that as a young teenager. And so it always stuck in my mind. I, I really was, I really just thought anyone who  was going down that,  that, that, uh, track in life was just an idiot. And, and, um, so I didn't really pay it to mind's eye.  I made it a goal of mine to not get caught up in any of that stuff.

It wasn't attractive to me, and I thought the less I do of that, the more success I'm going to have in surfing. And so that was, that was just one thing that was a real basis for my, success. Um, but then  that's a pretty obvious one too though, isn't it mate? The reason we're here today talking to Denise is about diet and stuff because there's all these different things that go into the formula, as you know, Trev.

Yep. No, so you go, mate. I was just going to say, that's a classic thing about not just what not to ingest, but it took you down the path of what to ingest. Like you're really, when we first met, we talked about the zone diet before people even knew what that was. There was things that you were doing and you were doing it, outside the box from a young age, that there's no, it's no accident why we're sitting with the greatest surfer of all time, um, that he just accidentally got here.

But also the fact that, and you might not like me saying this, potentially one of the greatest or the greatest athlete of all time competitively that it's just, this is not an accident. You chose what to ingest and what not to ingest. Can you tell us a little bit about that? What did you start putting in?

What were you actually favoring and what were you pushing? What were you keeping away from you? Yeah. Well, I, I was, I like to tell people I was raised on Doritos and Oreos and chocolate chip cookies and ice cream and cupcakes. Cause I honestly was like, I had the worst diet as a kid. And, um, and unfortunately my mom takes that as like some kind of like, um, passive aggressive shot at her, but it's not, I just like sugar and you know, we had that in our house and she made dinner most nights anyways, but that was the kind of stuff I like to eat.

Um,  I love milkshakes and chocolate milk and,  um, and, uh,  I ate a lot of pasteurized dairy and a lot of sugar. Um, but I  guess in my early twenties, I started to look at, I'm like, Whoa, I can actually change my diet. And that's a whole other piece of the puzzle here. And I bought this 1. tape at a health food store while I was waiting for my juice, and it was a Dr.

Joel Wallach, a guy named Dr. Joel Wallach, who had, he had done 3, 000 autopsies on humans and like 17, 000 autopsies on animals in his lifetime.  And he basically said no one dies of old age, you die of a deficiency of something over a long period of time, or a, or a pollutant or something in your body. Um, so he talked, this was in the early mid 90s, and he was just talking about detoxification and good diets and, you know, how America was, you know, ahead of the curve on so many things, but he said our diet still sucked.

In the 70s, he was touring around the world telling people the American diet's terrible. And they're saying, but it's better than every other diet. And he said, that's not good enough. You know, you think it is. But that doesn't mean that the diet's great. Just because you're better than someone else doesn't mean you're as good as you can be.

And I listened to this tape over and over and over again in my car and it blew my mind. I'm like, this one dollar tape was like the best information I ever got about diet and health. And, um,  I actually still look up that guy sometimes. He, I follow him online a bit. And, um, he's always putting out this great information.

But, uh, then I started to learn about different diets, food combining diets. So food combining diet really Help me. It's actually a Taoist, uh, form of, of eating where you don't mix proteins and carbs, eat fruit by itself. But then there's all these subcategories where you, you don't mix citrus fruits with sweet fruits or, um, sub acid fruits.

And, um, like certain fruits like watermelon, you'd eat alone and  on and on. You maybe don't even mix two proteins together, just one at a time. And so your body becomes really efficient. And so I started experimenting on myself with that and trying these different kind of diets and  Shane Dorian was traveling with me during a time where I was really into it.

I was actually telling Shane what to eat and he noticed a big difference in his body so I became, I won't say obsessive about it, but I became super interested in, you know, Um, and health in the mid nineties and, um, Tom Carroll was a real advocate for, for healthy foods and I travel with Tom a lot. So it wasn't, it didn't become a difficult thing for me.

It became like a really great addition to my life. And that's led me down further and further down rabbit holes of trying to understand nutrition and, and, um,  and, uh,  you know, health issues for people.  I've,  For better or worse, I just, I have a lot of friends around the world and a lot of friends who've been affected by heart disease and cancers and all sorts of different things and  I like to,  I like to be up on knowledge because I like to share things with people and maybe help their lives.

So with that learning journey then, where have you landed in terms of your diet? What do you focus on as far as diet and also supplementation as well?  Well, the last thing I ate was a chocolate chip cookie. So maybe we'll talk about it tomorrow when I'm, when I'm cleaned back up.  Well, I think we had that little chat when you and I were talking.

It's like, you know, you've just come off the, you know, being the champion and sort of competing at this level. And now you're a new dad and life's just a little bit different for you right now. Right. Is that correct? Is that still since we spoke a little while ago? But you know what I've gone through, I think I've been a little slack the last year or two.

Um, And, and it's because I was disciplined for a really long time. I mean, I've been disciplined with my diet and my lifestyle and all sorts of things. And so sometimes you just want to have a breather and not think about it. But I actually think my life's a lot better when I'm really focused on that stuff and I feel better. 

Um,  is there a particular diet that you, you follow now? I mean, not, not necessarily just after the chocolate chip cookie. I'm giving him some,  you can say what you're doing, Kelly. And then we can say where I'm hoping you're going, which you love. We love the idea of it. Yes. When we spoke. Correct. Correct. I'm jumping into it.

I'll let you talk.  I'm just, I'm just waiting to get Denise's, uh, uh, prescription for what I'm supposed to be doing now is really, uh, it, what it's all about.  Let me steer something for a second, um, cause we're going to get to that. And when we get to it, we want to talk about what the shifts will be and all that sort of stuff.

But I got a few little questions just quickly because there's, we can't have a guy sitting on front of us. So he's. I literally, you're magic, mate. You do magic. You do incredible things. You, you're a bit of a sorcerer, right? And then the way you do things. So I want to talk to you about when we first got together, we had a conversation about, I used to have this experience when I was swimming and I shared it with these guys.

I'd be swimming and I just know that I had to slow down or speed up or be in exactly in a spot. I could feel the wave that I needed was coming. And I was so,  I suppose there was enough courage there to go, Whoa, I've got to feel this sixth sense, this intuition, the song you got to go your own way was in my head quite a lot.

And I would actually slow down and I'd meet this wave exactly where it was. And I wouldn't know in the commentary, they'd be saying, Trevor's gone that way. He's done. What's he doing?  And then they go, Oh, Oh, he's got the wave. Oh, they had their chance. He's done it again. Blah, blah, blah. And so when I was in this experience, I was just in a flow.

Like I was loving where I was. I was open to the idea that, oh, do I need to go harder, faster, you know, slower? What do I need to do? And this thing would come in like almost like a guidance. We chatted about it on our very first night hanging out together and it was like both of our eyes lit up because you have many famous moments where you needed a 9.

4 or a 3 or whatever and you let so many waves go by. Talk to me about this sixth sense of yours, this, this thing that After all the preparation, all the work, all the desire that's there, you're ready, you're prepared. Talk to us about this stuff that happened to you so many times. It's changed so many people's lives watching you, that where does it come from?

What is it? Do you love it? Are you chasing it all the time?  What is this thing?  X Factor, magic? What is, what is it?  No, it's just, you know, that  I've, I've definitely, um,  had that a million times in my life and a lot of times on public display where people are seeing it. But, um, you know, in your private life too, um, as you know, with Mark Visser, he and I speak about this a lot, Trev.

Um, it's just a theme, but what feels right.  And if you don't, if you don't actually experience something and feel it, you can't teach it or show it, or even you shouldn't even talk about it, um,  uh, to some degree, um, unless you're asking questions to try and find that. Um, but I think,  I think,  Yeah, the experience of life is just to be present, right?

And to, to be able to, to feel things. There's no good or bad emotions. They're all, I, I try to have this theory that all emotions are equally as important. Um, but if you're not in touch with those and you're not clean in your life, you're not clear, you can't access that feeling. And every, every person on the planet has the ability to, to access. 

Almost like predicting the future because you're so in the flow of what it is you're doing. Um, you could be writing software, you could be teaching a child how to talk, you could be making dinner, like.  You know, next thing you know, if you're, if you're out of the flow, you drop a knife and it catch your foot or, uh, you know, you, you, you had one last egg, you need it for that recipe and you broke it.

And you like a dumb thing will happen because your mind's somewhere else. But surfing, I think the thing I love about surfing is it brings me so present because it's exciting and it's fun. And, and it, it created a life for me, a career.  my friendships, all this stuff. So surfing became so much more important than every other thing in my life because of that, because it was such the central focus for me.

And  that can be a detriment at times, maybe in a personal sense, or people can be critical of it that are close to you and feel like it's coming between you and them, or it's more important. But, um, you know, each person just on their own journey and figuring it, you got to answer all these things for yourself.

And, and, um, you know, if surfing is my drug addiction, um, I'm the one who needs to, uh, come to a resolution that it needs to change in some fashion. Um, you know, so people can tell you that till you're, till they're blue in the face and frustrated, but, um, you know, it's just, it's, it's, uh, for me, I think it's luckily been a very. 

Um, healthy, uh, good option for, for something that I'm  so addicted to. Um, you know, it's generally a positive thing. It's a, it, it, it, it, but it turned into a career for me. But I do talk about it like that because it fills all those gaps for me. It fills all those, um, maybe empty places as a kid or exciting things I want to do in my life one time.

And, uh, and  sometimes I take a step away from surfing. Like I was really sick a few weeks ago. And, um,  and then I had a little bit of an injury and I haven't really surfed much for the last month or six weeks. And, and.  And now I'm in a place where the, where it's really cold. Like I'm up North in California and it's chilly up here and it's not super inviting to surf. 

And it's funny. Sometimes I look at the surf and it feels so foreign to me if I spend a little time away from it. And I almost get to experience it as somebody who doesn't understand it or know it. I can get a glimpse into.  almost like an outsider instead of an insider. And it's really interesting to me because it almost brings me back to when I began and what the allure was, what the attraction was for me.

And, um,  um, I don't even know if I answered any question you asked me there. It's just like,  I'll follow it up with something too, because I, um, one of the things I've always loved about being around you and with you and everything is that you do create magic quite a lot. And I, I want to talk about a moment that, um, that, you know, you won Pipeline right near your 50th birthday that we mentioned.

In numerology, they say 11 is the gateway number. It's the number where the physical and the metaphysical comes together. It's where the magic happens. You've won 11 world titles. As you pointed out, that was your 56th title, which also breaks down to the number 11 in numerology. So it's, you know, um, so quite fascinating.

It was a gateway, but, but talk to the, the, the, to the people today about that moment. Cause it seemed like a combination cause surfing's been your canvas and your backdrop to create magic, but it's also inspired so much in so many other people. There's people that adore you and thank you for so much watching you for so long.

And at Pipeline on that beach over that week, we had a conversation. I think the day before all this, we really reconnected over a couple of things. I just remembered that was all about magic again, and being in the flow, but you had this. This, this week that was pretty incredible and the culmination of luck.

Can you take us into that experience and explain what happened? Because we're talking waves of consequence, waves you could die on, you know, um, incredible young competitors, and you're just about to have your 50th birthday and you go into this flow. Can you just take us through what happened as an example of where you've ended up?

Um,  I'll, I'll, I'll make it clear too. You can die in a one foot wave. Um,  I have a friend who, um,  uh, a, a, a good friend of mine. Um, he's from Ventura in California and he was out surfing with a friend of his one day when the waves are about one to two foot. When there were kids, he was like 15,  no one on the beach and he doesn't know what happened.

Next thing you know, he woke up being resuscitated by a firefighter on the beach. He just somehow knocked himself out and there was a firefighter off duty running on the beach and saw body floating and pulled him up on the beach and saved his life.  And it was in tiny little surf. Um,  uh, but, but going back to your question, getting the pipeline that week, um, 

I had spent about two months in Florida just prior to that. And when I go home to Florida, I don't really interact with people a lot. I see my old friends that I grew up with and stuff, but I spend most days kind of by myself and I was doing a lot of sort of self reflecting. And then one night I went out with my friends and we were playing cards.

It was me and like my oldest friend, Five or six friends I went to school with and stuff and we're playing cards and  I got in this laughing fit Like, you know when you get those laughing fits where like you can't stop you just cannot stop laughing. It was like the funniest I had like the best night of my life.

I was, I was, I, I don't remember a time I was happier than that in my life. I was crying, literally crying. I'm going to cry right now thinking about it. We were laughing so hard at just stupid stuff. And, and then this, this other friend of mine I had known since maybe teenage years,  he ended up just kind of inviting himself over to the house and he kind of like, Broke, he kind of just broke the bond we had amongst us because we were all so relaxed and he started asking me questions about Like what it's like to be a pro and know all the pros and surfing this pot And like it was just like not what you want to hear when you're like  just in your personal space, you know And he's someone I knew like for this guy.

I've known this guy like 35 years and it was just strange to me but it really like put me in a negative headspace  and and um Anyways, I went home and I, I thought a lot about that and I, I didn't want to make him feel bad or anything, but  you know, I, I,  it was just so good to, I guess the point is it was so good to reconnect just with my friends that I don't get to spend a lot of time with.

And, you know, they have lives and kids and we don't get that time we had when we were teenagers or 20 years old. And, um,  so I left, I left Florida a couple of days after that night and I, I just left on a real high though, like a real positive. good feeling. And 

I think in sports, like if you're trying to win titles and that kind of thing, you're aspiring to this really like out there thing that not many people will experience. But it sort of sent me this message that like the good things are simple things, you know, the good things are just your interaction, your feeling, the best things in the world are feelings and, and, um, experiences with people. 

And I, I just was in that headspace at that contest.  And just to give you some, a little, a little, uh,  a little funny message, Trev, that you would understand  during that contest, uh,  as it was  the, the, I think it was a day into the contest. Maybe I had surfed once or twice so far,  and I was running from the competition back to my house.

I was running through the park  and.  There's a friend that I have, a good friend of mine from New York. She lives in California now, I believe, but she, she's, uh, anyways, I've known her for like 30 years, but I haven't talked to her in like five years before this.  And  I'm running through the park and I hear this song  and I'm, I think to myself,  That's, that's my friend's song.

Like, she's, that's the song she sings at karaoke. I used to go to karaoke with her and it was the one song she sang. And I'm like, oh, that's funny, that's my friend Kennedy. I haven't talked to her in a long time. And I just thought that, and I'm running through the park and it's this song called, uh, I Got Friends in Low Places. 

And so I just started, like, just kind of smiling, thinking about her, and I run back into my house, and about 30 seconds before I get in my house, I look at my phone, and about 30 seconds before that, she texted me, just as I was hearing that song, and I haven't talked to this girl in years.  And I'm like, that's so weird.

Like, I feel so connected to my friends, you know, like, it was no big thing. It was just a fun thing to think. Like, in that moment, I'm thinking about her, and I haven't talked to her in so long, she messages me. And I tell her, I text her back, I'm like, I just heard your karaoke song. She's like, oh, that's so cool.

Anyways, I just was like, I just felt happy. And,  and when I went out and I was competing, I had this heat, I think it was my second or third round in that contest. And I was surfing against this local kid, Baron Mamiya, and he's really good at pipeline. And he's kind of the new generation, part of that next generation that's pushing the limits out there.

And,  and he had me on the ropes from the first wave of the heat. He took off and got this really good wave, and then I kind of kept myself in numbers wise, but he was, he was like, just in the flow, in the heat. And it was, it was a little intimidating. And I'm like, man, I can't go out like that. Like I gotta, I gotta let in my mind that, that that thing starts waking awaken up, you know?

And um, it awakens this, like,  I like to call it a demon, but it's not a negative demon. It's just like this. hyper focused, like obsessive thing in me that wants to win. And, um, it kind of woke that up and I'm like, I can't go out like this. Like, even if he beats me, I gotta let him know that like, he's got to work for it. 

And then there's about two minutes left in the heat and I have priority, which means I can take any wave I want.  And I need a really big score, bigger, I think a bigger score than I already had a big, it was a bigger score than I already had. And it was the highest wave score of the heat I think I needed.

And, um, so I'm sitting there at Friarty and the ocean goes kind of flat. And I went, well, you know what?  I actually, like, did this heat justice. He had to work to beat me and even though he started out winning and, so I'm giving myself this whole talk in my inside.  And then I thought, well, you know, I totally accept this outcome.

I'm not going to be upset or bummed, but you know, I felt good this week. The waves are going to be really good the whole week. And,  and I accept kind of whatever it is. And I fully processed it in that moment. And then right then I see a couple of waves pop up out there, but  I just see these a couple waves pop up and this first one comes and I'm like, I look at it and I go, you know what?

I might be able to get the score,  but I got, I got about 30 seconds left. There's 15 second interval. I'm going to give myself a chance to look at the second wave. So I paddled out a little bit just to give myself a couple extra seconds of time. And then the next wave was like clearly the one. And I just looked at it and I caught the wave with three seconds to go and the heat ended while I was getting barreled.

And, and then, um, you know, from there I kind of, I, I made the wave and I got the highest score of the heat and I won the heat, but it was like a real turning point. And I've had a lot of these sort of magic moments in competitions over the years where  when something like that happens, it just catapults me into this other. 

Other sort of realm for myself where I have this crazy confidence and I just knew in that moment, I'm like, if I just don't question this, I'm going to win this contest. I just, I just had that real strong feeling  and I didn't want to think about being almost 50 and, you know, oldest guy to win this contest and what all these things that it means for you later on.

You kind of look back and it's like your, you know, your laurels a little bit for your. Legacy or something, but I didn't want to, I said, I can't think about those things. I gotta push those things aside and do my job because I need to be present. And, um,  yeah, it's just everything else came together. The rest of the contest was actually, I don't want to say easy to disrespect my competitors, but I did it.

It, it wasn't very hard. Um, I just felt like I was, it was my time and it was meant to be. And you have to believe that. And if it doesn't happen, who cares?  You know? So, so that was, but if, but if it does happen, you go, yeah, I knew it. And that builds your confidence.  That, that was a crazy, amazing thing and, and to, to make it short, you, you went through some amazing heats and situations where you just kept having the answer when you needed it. 

Tell us what was the feeling before we move on to what we want to sort of draw towards the end. What was the feeling when you stood at the sta on the stage at the end of that? Because I know you were having very unique feelings. It was almost like a culmination of your whole career. This loop had come back down, come back all the way around a point.

You were looking at faces in the audience that you loved, you know, tell us about that moment. Did, did it really, um, does it still sit with you? Because it was a really key moment, it was more than winning Pipeline.  Yeah, no, it felt like a real key moment and it felt like a really.  I felt like a really important thing for a lot of people that I didn't even know.

It's, it's a strange thing. And I don't want to  put words in anyone else's mouth, but  that's been two and a half years, almost three years now since that happened. And I still see people quite often. They come up and go, man, I haven't seen you since then. I cried when you won. And you don't know what that meant to me at my age.

I'm, I'm younger than you, but I, you know, I'm like almost 50 or whatever. And, um,  and, uh, you know, I just felt like I was so such a part of that for some reason, it's just like. helped me or did something for me. And, um,  I guess that's what  the pinnacle of sport should be, is that it, it, it, if it's not someone else doing it, it fulfills some dream for them or some  ideal or the, the, the possibility that you can do something that you didn't think you could, or I don't know, it's, it's, it's,  I don't want to talk about it from anyone else's perspective, but for me, it felt absolutely. 

beyond special. Um, it was, it was almost as if every other thing that happened in my life built up to that moment to make that moment special.  Yeah, man, I love it. I think, um, the reason I brought it up because it felt like it was the turning of a page for you, you know, not long after that things started to change.

You started to, you know, think about, do I want to be on the tour much longer? You know, Kalani and yourself have had this, you're a beautiful little boy, you know, your life has shifted. It was like the, turn the completion of a chapter. So what's next? Cause I know Denise is going to talk to you because what I see is you've taken, um, competition to a whole new level.

You've tapped into magic. You've done it over a long period of time. Uh, you've created a massive impact on the world. Most people that know of you would say, Oh my God, they, they, their eyes light up when they think of you. So what's next for you? Um, now with Kalani and your little man and, um, you know, What, what, what's, um, as you open up that next chapter, what sits there, you've got a, you've got wave pools, you've just done one in Abu Dhabi, you've just done an amazing skincare range.

You've, you know, you're, you're doing all sorts of meetings. You, you, your phone book would be most fascinating phone book to look in all the names and the people that you can hang out and go create stuff with. And, um, you know, what, what's next for you, mate, where, how do you take something that's already been magic and turn it into an impact for yourself and for others?

What's next. 

Um,  I mean, first  and foremost is just my son and,  and, um,  learn to be a good dad and be with him and present with him and do the right things, you know, like just help him have a great experience  on the planet in this existence. I,  I think a lot of philosophical questions come up when you have children, um, about yourself and about the world and the meaning of life.

And I think that's really fun. And all these things, and there's a lot that I feel like I don't know, but you just, and maybe you'll never know, but you just need to go and feel and experience and just be part of, and then it makes sense maybe later on, but.  I,  man, I trip out on this kid. It's so weird. He just, he,  you sit in the stomach for nine months and then you come out into this, like you're in this, all of a sudden you're in this, what are all these foreign people and these experiences and the sounds and this light.

And I mean, I, to me, it's been like a, a full on, um, existential,  um,  Gosh, like a psychedelic trip or something. It's so weird to, um,  to see that some things just  make him happy, some things just  confuse him or scare him or make him sad and you don't know why and was there some, you know, Reason why or is it just because  I, you know, kids are just so connected to what they feel and that's the whole of existence and experience is, is totally dictated by what they feel in the moment and nothing beyond that.

And so my job right now is just to try and  provide a space for him to. Do that as purely as he could, it can without too much of my input, you know, just enough guy. I just want to steer him here and there. So he didn't get hurt or something, but the rest is, I'm learning by watching him experience and feel whatever it is. 

And, and the thing that I've get, I've, I've got throughout you telling your whole story is the importance of being present to achieve the things that you've done and to enjoy the things that you've done. Presence is a feature of all of that. How much do you attribute? really, now that you're a parent, being a good parent, as to being present.

Is, is that something that you notice even now at this young stage? Um, when I suppose how things change or shift within yourself and your relationship with your child when you're actually present?  Yeah. I mean, look, I'm learning. I'm not professing to be present because I, I feel like I'm really, I, I live a very busy, distracted life.

And I think part of the,  You know, we chose to have a kid, but part of the reason that, um, ethereally or metaphysically that I had a child is that it's going to help bring me back to being  more in myself more often.  Because I, because it's the right thing, you know, um,  I, I know I, I don't,  none of us listens to our own advice all the time. 

True.  Sadly, it's true. So I'm, I'm not, I'm not necessarily trying to give advice, but I, I think these stories like Trevor's bringing up and stuff, I'm looking back at them and I'm realizing the common theme is that,  The common theme is being very, very present in those times and being fully connected to the feeling that's happening.

And  when I think about that, a story just happened recently, um, a friend of mine is a filmmaker and he has a primal fear of sharks, of great whites. And he realized that the thing that makes him most scared  is the thing that interests him the most. Like, great whites are like a, he's like a moth to a flame.

Like he has to experience them, but it terrifies him so much that it's like that primal worst fear. So he started making movies about it and he realized that he was living a lot of his life. Not present in his mind and feelings and with his kids and blah blah But when he was around great whites or something that really scared him He was completely totally present and so he started to make it like his life goal that he made he's made these really cool  Um, movies like 360 degree, he, you have to use those oculus glasses and stuff to, to watch his films, but he's sort of made it his life goal to, to film all the things that scare him, wild animals, but sharks was the number one.

Um, so when I think about,  when I think about being present, I think about that a lot and I think that's why surfing, uh, attracted me so much cause it makes me present.  Absolutely. So on this podcast. You know, one of the big focuses is helping the listeners understand how much they can do to change their life for the better.

And sometimes it's a really small thing, like don't pick up the packet of chips, just have a piece of fruit, or maybe you don't scroll your phone at night. And it really comes down to this words that have healthspan and you've mentioned age quite a few times, but the reality is we are not our age. we are not that number.

You could be 50 and be more like a 75 year old and have joint pain and not doing much and overweight. Or you could be 50 and be like a 30 year old and surfing and enjoying life and traveling. And so there's this concept of biological age, you know, cellular health  and No doubt this interests you. We have done a test together.

Um, and no surprise your pace of aging, which it tells people if you've got accelerated aging, now this is what comes along if you have a chronic illness or you're under high stress, or you have a slower pace of aging. Now yours was one of the best I've seen. No surprise. Um,  And, but there were a few other things in, in the test results as well.

I don't know how much time we've got to talk, but I don't, when we, when we went through that, do you have any questions or any comments on that? I mean, you, you've done a lot of traveling since I spoke to you. I'm not even sure if you've been able to hold all that information in your mind. Um,  questions. Um,  no, I mean, we'll get to some of that because I want to ask you about the protocols and stuff of things I'll be taking or I just started, but just to  we can dive into that maybe more personally, the questions that that interest me about that stuff.

But, um,  I think  I talked about Dr. Joel Wallach earlier and he studied. One thing he did was he studied Yeah.  Centurions around the world, all the oldest people, the oldest communities. And he said they all drank glacial water. They were at high altitude and they lived. So they had an abundance of minerals and they had, um, and it didn't matter if they smoked a little bit or they, Some of them drank a little bit or whatever, but they're constantly replenishing the minerals and then like, and all the, all the nutrients they needed within their bodies.

And another, just the, on sort of the opposite of that, um,  uh,  with athletes, a lot of athletes that  go really hard, you know, triathletes and, and marathon runners and stuff, and. People who push, push, push. I would probably put myself in that category to some degree, maybe not to the to the full extent of pushing your body.

But Trevor also is when you're burning through so many nutrients in your body, you're depleting yourself. Um, he realized that most, um, high, high level athletes don't live especially long, um, because they do burn out a lot of the nutrients in their body, most likely. Mm hmm. And become very mineral deficient.

You mentioned minerals. So when you're sweating, you're actually sweating out those minerals. When you're under stress, you know, breaking down those stress hormones, which it's a good stress exercise, but it is something that can deplete you if you're not getting that right nutrition. And like you just mentioned about the minerals, I remember watching something with David, Attenborough, who I love and still hope to meet, though I probably don't have much time.

Um, I'll be in London again next year. Uh, but David Attenborough was doing. You know, one of his amazing shows and he was talking about after a volcano, when things change like all the minerals in the water and how after a certain amount of time, there'll be more fertility, more life in these areas that have got the minerals from those, you know, volcanoes that have then got into rivers and streams.

And I talked to this with my patients, cause I do a lot of fertility stuff and also work with people that are depleted, like minerals, nutrients. It's much more than just energy and calories, like they are the things that help you rebuild, repair, regenerate. So nutrition really is absolutely key if people do want to take their health to the next level or, you know, not die early or get sick. 

Yeah, I find that super interesting. You hear stories about people who live to be 100 years old, and they drank a little bit of whiskey every day, or they had a little red wine, or they, you know, there was a little sugary food they liked, but, you know, there might be something a little more to the rest of the diet that's happening, or, or, you know, there's genes involved and all sorts of things that you know better about.

We do have longevity genes. Sadly, I have one of the ones that's not linked with longevity, one of the predominant ones that's not, but I have to work harder. This fuels me as an older mom as well with my kids and after what I've experienced, you know, losing my parents. Um, but when it comes to all of the diet and all of the things we do, I think one thing we need to remember too is the joy.

You talked about having a little bit of whiskey or a little bit of wine. Sometimes we can get to a point where. we're trying so hard to do all the right things, we're forgetting to enjoy the moment. You've talked a lot about the presence, laughing, being happy, just when he was happy. Yeah, like laughing with your friends and how good that made you feel.

You know, they say laughter is the best medicine, some people say exercise is the best medicine, some people say food is the best medicine, but it's the combination of all these things. I think we are here to learn, but also to enjoy life. And that feeling of joy actually then turns on all of these good biochemical processes and serotonin, stuff that's good for the brain, lights up the brain.

You know, if you want to talk about not getting Alzheimer's, yes, the food and the exercise, but let's light up that brain with something exciting and new and fun. So we do want to remember how important it is to Be happy, enjoy. I've got a question for you. So, so we got, you know, uh, he's one of the greatest athletes of all time.

He's in his fifties sitting here. You guys have done some testing together.  What, what part can you share that you're happy to share? What have you found? What have you recommend them to take or, you know, what, what, what. what's helping, you know, all that sort of stuff. Where, where, where do we get to? I want to know this.

Yeah. Well, as whatever you want to share. Yeah. The pace of aging for anyone that knows about pace of aging, some people might not, but there's a test called the Dunedin pace. It's very popular. All the biohackers are doing it. Um, and you basically want to be under one that sort of says slower pace of aging.

So Kelly was at, I think 0. 72. It's actually very good. Hang on. Every year Kelly's aging 0. 72 of a year. Correct. That's unbelievable. That's. That's in slow motion. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like those slow waves in Florida. That's slow aging. Yeah, it all started back then. The slow wave. Hang on. What's the guy that's, um, Brian Johnson, who's spending a million dollars a year or whatever it is on.

Two million bucks a year. Yeah. That's like five billion Aussie.  Isn't he,  isn't he, um, 0. 75? Yeah, he,  72.  Well, I think he went a little bit lower, so when I He's 0. 63, I think. Is he? I think I heard he was at point, low 0. 6 something. Oh, you got a bit of work to do, mate. When I did my, and I've asked for, we may have mentioned this on a podcast before I was, I asked it to be validated 'cause I wasn't sure, and I wouldn't say I'm there right now, but when I conducted the study the first time, the protocol I shared with you, Kelly, um, it really turned my health around.

This was last year, and I went from 0.82 down to 0.62 just through. the protocol that I've, that I, um, am giving to you, though you've been sort of busy and traveling, but it's about real food. It's like six serves of veg, a couple of colored, a couple of greens, cruciferous, plenty of protein, um, which depends really on the individual and the amount of exercise you're doing.

Cause some people need a lot more protein for muscle building, but at the same time, you don't want to have a lot if you're, In a position that maybe you're injured or you're not doing things. Is there anything specific though that showed up so that you would sort of say, well, look, this is, this is unbelievable.

And here are some areas that we can tweak for improvement. When it comes to specifically aging, there are some things aside from minerals and nutrients, there are some key nutrients that tend to get a bit more depleted or we might need things to support, say the mitochondria. mitochondria like your battery.

So there are certain things like nicotinamide riboside. So we've got the future lab range access to what, what have you sent him? What is it? Yeah. Did you get a package at home, Kelly? I think you did. You sent me a message saying it arrived. Yeah. Yeah. I did. Yeah. So in that, aside from the diet and we talk about lifestyle and sleep, there are certain, certain supplements that we have some evidence, relatively new evidence to suggest these things.

mainly animal model studies. Um, we're getting some more human studies in the work that I've done showing that this actually can help with slowing down aging. Um, and, and I guess symptoms wise, people tend to feel, feel better. That's another thing as well. So nicotinamide riboside, so that, that really sort of feeds into.

The Krebs cycle, where we produce ATP. And as we get older, we produce less of that. So the idea is supplementing it will help with our energy production, cellular. Exactly. Because you do start to make less of certain things. You know, Kelly even mentioned about, you know, detoxification, one of the most, you know, important nutrients for that is sort of amino acids making something called glutathione.

We make less glutathione as we age. Like a lot of these things that help us stay really well, they'll give us that vibrancy, help our cells stay healthy. We just, as we age, we make a little bit less. So yeah. We can actually have these in supplements, but really to get the gold, yes, you can just take the supplement, but if you're doing this on top of the diet and the lifestyle, that's when you've got that edge.

So what's he likely to feel whether you get all those elements right? Yeah, well, I hope, I mean, I'm guessing that sleep is a little bit interrupted for you at the moment, Kelly. So I'm hoping the protocol actually just help you deal with all these changes in your life as well. So you're feeling a little fresher. 

Everyone keeps going, how's your sleep going? And I'm like, Mine's fine. I don't have breasts. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. You know, we're breastfeeding. Uh, Kalani's breastfeeding. And, um, it's,  it's, and she's just really great about you know getting the cycle times right and making sure, you know, you also have to learn when your baby It's crying for, because it wants to be changed, or it's just tired, or it's hungry.

Um, you know, so Kalani's been really great about, um, knowing when the baby's hungry, and, and, and at night it's been like, we're still on this, doesn't sleep all the way through the night, but he does like three hour cycles, and then he wants to eat, and then he goes to sleep for like three hours, and then he wants to eat.

So there's about three of those in a night, in a night. For a good long sleep. Um, I remember that. Four hours, every four hours. She's like, oh yeah, you had a great sleep last night. And I'm like, yeah, it was awesome. Did he wake up?  There's a life lesson for you. I actually have a really busy brain at night.

So I usually stay up pretty late, till like midnight. And she'll be in bed like at eight. So, yeah, I actually. Um, I actually want to focus on on my sleep, uh, you know, going to bed earlier and sleeping more thoroughly through the night. But, um, Also on call for if the baby needs anything. And I think that's one of the things that we discussed because, um, in the protocol that I suggest, I do say for healthy aging, for people that want to slow down the aging process or reduce risk of chronic conditions, you do want to be getting on average seven to nine hours of good quality sleep.

That doesn't mean being in bed. That means, you know, getting that deep sleep, that regenerative sleep. Um, We're all different though. Some people can actually cope really well with less. It depends on how quickly you get into that deep sleep. I mean, for you, Kelly, with all the exercise and how busy you are, you might fall asleep and actually quickly  Oh, you still there? 

You might find  you might find that when you do fall asleep, you very quickly get into a deep sleep or what we call REM sleep. Um, my husband, for example, has less time in bed, but he gets more quality sleep than me. I have a lot of light sleep. Um, but that is one of the things we spoke about, about you trying to go to bed a little bit earlier.

And I did send you one of the future lab. Um, it's one of the sleep supplements. The deep wave sleep booster. Yeah. So that wasn't part of my initial protocol, but I put that in for you. That one. For you Kel. And um, it's actually got a little bit of something called lemon balm. Lemon balm is beautiful. I actually had Graves disease, which is like hyperactive lemon balms.

Really? That one Chill. Some Lac Theof Formm as well. Yeah, it's very calming. Good for bed. And it's got a little bit of l-theanine, so yeah. Having that at night. Maybe gonna bed just a little bit earlier. Um, so you made some recommendations for Kelly based on his cellular age test results? Mm. So I'm not sure if.

And Kelly, if you're taking or following that advice, what I think would be I just started, yeah. I just started taking it all about, um, in over the past two weeks. So  that's great. So that I would be really interested to see if even as good as those results were, if If those recommendations actually make a difference, so you can actually beat Brian Johnson, knowing the competitive human.

Part two. Yeah. Well, that's the plan because I'm a little bit competitive too. And I want everyone to do my protocol to just, you know, kick ass and prove that you don't need to go and do these invasive things. And yeah. You know, a couple of competitive superpowers, you know, take your son's plasma and inject it into you and the gene editing.

I mean, there's some pretty intense. I've been doing that every morning. That was not part of the protocol, Kelly. What was this, the song about breast milk as well?  Actually, a friend of mine said, uh, he came visit us and, and Joe made him a coffee and said, Oh, what milk do you like? And he said, I have breast milk with mine.

And then she paused for a second and went, what? You know?  Um, so if, you know, even that there's some crazy things out there around eating breast milk, not cow's milk, but anyway. Well, you could actually do that though, Kelly, if you wanted to.  I'm not getting that picture. It might've snuck into a couple of lattes, you know? 

Um, But, but yeah, it will be interesting to see, you know, we, we can check in and, um, make sure that, you know, you understand that protocol. I mean, thankfully, what I loved is when we spoke, how committed you were to like, just, it is completely obvious when we spoke that you do want to live the best life and you do want to put the right nutrients in and you are happy to get knowledge and, and learn.

Um, so it's going to be fun to see where, you the results get. And, and I guess what we also didn't talk about, there's many other things in that test. Your biological age, though, even though your pace of aging, which doesn't change that quickly. We do have what's known as a biological age, and you can come in a bit older or younger.

Actually, you came in about a year older, um,  That does change pretty quickly if you do go through a bit of a stress or even getting an infection. One thing I, I found phenomenal when I was doing my study was that people that had got an infection, they, their biological age went up. If we did the test within two weeks of them being sick, their biological age There's a lot of inflammation and oxidative stress associated with food.

fighting an infection. So that would make sense. So Kelly's biological age was a bit older, which that can change rapidly, but his pace of aging is more consistent and that's really low. So there must have been a stressful period or Yes. Yeah. So we talked about that and that's when you had said that your lifestyle was a little bit different, um, kind of leading up to that.

Or even as you just said on the podcast, even the last year, just you had mentioned about the sleep, um, you know, not training the same way.  you know, a few things going on.  Yeah. I also did. Um, I was telling someone this yesterday and I haven't talked about this publicly, but, um, probably the right time to do it.

Um, I, I got a full body scan done when I was on the gold coast last time and back in April. And, um, and I got an alarming phone call from the doctor saying something came up in my lungs and they were very concerned about it and I needed to go do a further scan. in Brisbane immediately, um, which I did, but it took me, I got the test on Tuesday and the scans on Tuesday.

I got a phone call sort of Wednesday, and then I couldn't get onto the doctor till Friday morning.  And then they said, you can come in for the scans today. And, uh, if you haven't eaten anything, and at five minutes before that I had eaten breakfast. Um, so I had to wait until the next Monday. So I had like basically a week of like really,  Terrible stress thinking that I had a cancerous tumor in my lung.

Yeah, it turned out to be  Thankfully a benign some sort of a scarring or something I used to have quite a bit of like bronchial stuff when I was a kid So I think maybe I just had some kind of a scarring lesion or something and it was nothing um to be worried about but uh Definitely alarming and gave me a whole new perspective for what people feel about when they get terrible health news. 

And although that was terrible, um,  you then I connected you guys to have a conversation about that. Exactly, to have a conversation and I spoke to you while you were waiting and was able to, and of course Yeah. I could not diagnose anything and, and out of, out of my scope to be saying certain things, but speaking to you, knowing what else is going on in your body, also other blood markers and everything coming out normal.

It was really unlikely that there was something significant like that because everything else was, you know, it's okay. Um, yeah, that was great. You gave me a little bit of a peace of mind, but still it's hard to, hard to, uh, keep at bay for nights on end until I could get in and do the testing. And it was, it was definitely, um, a few pretty sleepless nights.

Um,  leading up to those final tests. Health anxiety is something that is very real, like health anxiety. I work with a lot of people. That actually have health anxiety. So just even trying to help them, them manage that. Um,  So, so legend. Okay, here we go. Question we've asked a lot of people along the way is this whole protocol is about giving you extra life, not just extra years, but extra life in those years.

So,  If you could get an extra 10 years, 20 years, cause they're now talking 120 is the new 80, you know, at some point soon. David Sinclair records 120, yeah. Um, if you could get an extra 10, 20 years now, having completed this first part of your life, what would you do with it? What would you do with the extra 10, 20 years of good life at the end? 

Why do you want it? If I knew I was going to live, if I knew I was going to live an extra 10 to 20 years?  I would go ride the biggest waves in the world right now, because I know I'm going to live. 

Brilliant. Yes. Well, that's the more, the potential to live.  And how would you, how would you live out those tailing ends into 20 years?  Still surfing. What would be important to you beyond the surfing? I don't know. I, I don't know. I, I mean, I, I, I envision, um, My life as I get older to, to  probably change dramatically at some point in my lifestyle, like, you know, I might,  I, I've been just thinking maybe I want to live on a farm and grow food and,  share knowledge about that, learn myself and then be able to pass that on to my kids or I don't know.

I, I, I, part of me wants to go live on a, on a catamaran and travel around the world go sailing, um, and fishing and diving. Um, but in my old years, I don't know. I want to, I'd love to be  totally comfortable  with  being in the back part of life, not having any fear around dying. And, um, Being able to like live in that fully and, um, you know, help younger people  look forward to aging, look forward to having a full life and, um, and doing it without fear. 

I think that's one of the wisest and most optimistic answers we've had so far. That's really cool. I was gonna say, you've got a good friend of yours is now heading towards the White House, RFK Jr. to challenge health at a national level. So there must be part of you that wants to disappear in the background and never be in the public again and just enjoy catamaraning and surfing.

There must be part of you that also goes, hang on a second. I could actually put some messages out here. Cause you've got great friends in great positions now. Yeah. And then Tulsi Gabber is also a very close friend of mine. Um, we're really good friends and, and she's got, um,  head of intelligence.  She just got a big role the last couple of days.

Um,  uh,  yeah, I,  I don't know.  I don't know. There's, there's, the world's your oyster, man. There's a lot of good, a lot of good, great, fun experiences to have. I, um,  I, I think the most pressing issue I see in the world, um, there's a lot of health things. I think the most pressing issue is the division amongst people, even in our country.

You know, obviously it's really heightened right now because we had an election just last week, two weeks ago. Um, but there is a real  moral.  and philosophical dilemma between people across the spectrum that I never felt in my life. And I think it's really unfortunate. And I, I think something needs to break that mold and people need to start really getting on the same page in terms of, we disagree, but we should be able to be okay with that.

And, and, uh, you know, sometimes I'm going to be wrong and sometimes you're going to be wrong. And, and, uh, I don't know. You know, it shouldn't be like a life or death conversation most of the time. There are things that are life or death, but most things are not. Most things are pretty simple. Yeah. We disagree, but we value each other.

Respectfully. I think it's I gotta One sec, because, Trev, I'm on 1 percent in my battery. Keep talking. We'll wrap it up. Yeah, you take it, buddy. Yeah, I just want to say I'm gonna probably have to go in the house to do it. So my background's gonna change. What you said, Kelly, I call it pro aging, right? Not being scared of death.

It's pro aging. It's actually, you know, it's taking charge and yeah. And then, and with the, uh, the division, you know, respectfully disagreeing is, is okay. And as you, as you walk in, mate, it's been, been beautiful to have you. We'll do part two when you've. Play with the protocol for a while. Oh, love you. I'm just trying to go get my charger so I can keep talking to you guys. 

It's all right, bro. Um, love you. Adore you, mate. So stoked that we got a chance to do this and that you got to hang out with my two amazing friends. Appreciate it. Appreciate the time. It's been fantastic. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. Something to think about. Thank you. It was good to meet you and Denise.

Thanks so much for the, the. protocol stuff. And Trev, sorry, sorry. I keep missing you on the phone, but I love you guys. And thanks so much. Thanks Kelly.  Talk soon.