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Welcome to FutureLab, where we explore the cutting edge of healthspan. I'm Danny Urbinder, and with me is my co host, Dr. Denise Furness. Hello. Hello. And Trevor Hendy. How are you Trevor? Good to be back. Yeah, back from where? Well, actually just, um, and this is what I'm excited about having our guest today, which I know you'll introduce, so just keep tied on that.

Um, is that I just got back, I did six weeks up in the Northern Territory and I went, uh, Like, ran two retreats, Western Queensland, right up in Kakadu, ancient grounds, like going up into art, you know, beautiful art sites, doing breathing, meditation, deep breath. So Breath and Breakthrough, Kane Johnson and Mark Kluwe, who we're going to have on soon as well.

Um, and we took this crazy journey and then for the last three weeks, then it was just my wife and I and sister in law, brother in law and some other friends and different people that we, we'd love to travel with, just going off right up into Arnhem Land, up into, you Coburg Peninsula, which is right up where in the Dreamtime stories, they talk about that lightning man struck the ground there for the first time and created all life.

That's the Dreamtime story. So this had this fascinating, magical feeling in the middle of nowhere. So I had this crazy experience this whole time. And then I've moved into this play. I've come back six weeks away. And before I went. I moved into this beautiful place in Currumbin Valley. It's like my dream home.

We've got a waterfall on the property. We've got three rock pools. We found more waterfalls. It's crazy. It's absolutely incredible. And this is why I'm passionate about it, because I'm so calm and relaxed and peaceful. I'm so in my happy place. But I got so comfortable, you know, and before that there was so much stress.

Do you see that segway? And I'm like, we've got Paul here today who you can introduce. Well, that's what we're here to talk about. Because I just had an experience of like, Ooh, I started to decline in the comfort zone. So this is, this is a future lab masterclass. And we are going to be talking about perhaps the dangers of comfort.

It's something that I think we're all attracted to with. Paul Taylor, who has really explored this in depth. So just to give you a bit of background, Paul is a neuroscientist, exercise physiologist, a nutritionist, and he's known for his work in resilience, mental fitness, and health span.  It is a long bio, so I won't go into it in full depth, but great to have you here.

Thank you for having me. And I think the first question is that, look, you really do have a fascinating background. Given where you are now, I'd be really interested to know you. What brought you there? So your life journey and how did it get you to this space in this point of interest? Yeah, so I, I originally went to uni, did a degree, then did a master's in exercise science and then decided I wanted to do something a bit more exciting and I joined the military, British military.

So I'm a, I'm an Irish Catholic who joined the British military.  Not many of us kicking around, but I flew in the back of helicopters. I was a helicopter navigator. Did anti submarine warfare for a number of years, then did helicopter search and rescue. And when I was doing helicopter search and rescue, there's lots of time sitting around.

And rather than play video games or watch TV, I did another master's in nutrition because I was always interested in the whole health and fitness game. And with the idea of, of leaving the forces and becoming a physiologist nutritionist. And that's what I did. And I met a young lady in Ecuador. He was an Aussie, dragged me here, kicking and screaming.

And I, came and set up as an exercise physiologist and nutritionist many, many years ago. But, Kicking and screaming, must be terrible to be here. Like this first place. Shocking, shocking.  Um, just, just quickly. So you did that like almost like a random thing that you did cause you had a subtle interest in it, but you're incredibly healthy sitting with you.

How old are you now? I'm 53. 53  and just a model of health, but where's the passion come from to maintain that for so long? Why is it so important to you? Yeah, look at it. For me, it was. Really sort of looking around me as you get older and just seeing lots of people decline, particularly when they get into their thirties and just thinking, I don't want that to happen to me.

And actually, I think the real passion started working with clients one on one. Um, I'm trying to help them with their health. And that's when I dove in. I realized it just wasn't about telling people what to do. So I went and studied neuroscience to understand behavior change. Then I started getting into corporate talks, and I saw more and more people just working themselves into the ground.

and really destroying their health as they were doing it. So I decided that it was my mission to try and help people to strike a bit of a balance. You were noticing those differences in people in their thirties, though. What were you noticing? Yeah, just people putting on weight and losing motivation. Um, just, you know, not exercising and then just, you know, falling into the easy, comfortable habits of getting home, I'm tired, I'm stressed, I'm going to have a glass of wine and stick or a bottle of wine and stick my feet up and watch TV and then the impact on sleep.

And because I was really trying to help executives with performance and for me, My passion came on that nexus where performance meets resilience and meets well being. Right. So that kind of became my driver, was where all of that happens. And when you look at the research around it, the three of those are intimately entwined.

And I think you have for a very long time, even before I knew you, um, because actually a colleague that, um, of yours, my friend connected us because you were talking about. epigenetics and methylation. I think you're on a morning show, a talk show in the morning. Um, and I was doing my PhD at the time. So this is like 20 years ago.

Um, and you were talking about things before it became popular, like it is now. So you've always had this brain that also wants to understand the science and even from a health span perspective, which is what this pod podcast is about because we did the study last year. You were, you were using physiological biometric markers to measure biological age back before it was even cool.

So you've been doing this stuff for a really long time. Yeah, yeah. I created a software for the fitness industry. So I did a lot of consulting with the fitness industry and created bio age testing software for the fitness industry that rolled out among  a number of gyms and then got a global deal with fitness first and stuff like that.

So I did a lot of education for trainers as well. And that. just kept me sharp. So I was constantly digging for what's next and I was probably the first person in Australia to talk about the brilliant benefits of exercise. Um, and that really became my passion. And the brilliant benefits in relation to Your health long term.

Are we talking about health? So I had a business called body brain performance and people used to think it was body brilliant performance. I'm like, where does this come from? So clearly yes. Aussies don't understand me when I say brain. No, most of it I understand. So what is, just throw us in quickly around the brain connection.

What is the effect on the brain? So physical exercise has an enormous impact on, on brain function, on cognitive health, on cognitive performance, on mood as well. So really when you dive into it, Every time you exercise, I talk about there's a neuro symphony happening in your brain. Right? Love that. There's this orchestra of neurotransmitters, but also all the growth factors, the BDNF stuff that we talked about.

About, well, let's dive into it. What, what does go on? I mean, what, what are some of the major things that happen when we exercise regularly? So, so when we exercise, um, what, what happens? Exercise is a stressor. Right. So I spoke to thousands of people about exercise over the years, and some people say, Yes, I'm into it.

I love it. And other people say, I don't like it because it makes me feel uncomfortable. And my response to them is it's supposed to be bloody uncomfortable. That is why it is good for us, right? It is a stressor. And the body reacts to those stressors by upregulating  the stress response genes that kick off this process.

really elaborate molecular cascade, right? Where it's basically the body going, Hey, geez, this is full on. I need to be prepared to, to do this again in the future. So it creates all of this adaptation to make you bigger, faster, stronger, faster, physically, but the brain really adapts very, very well to that.

Um, so BDNF that we talked about, that's been referred to as miracle grow for the brain. Now, if you remember that, brain derived neurotropic factor. Yeah. So they call it miracle grow for the brain, which is like fertilizer for the brain. So it helps you to create new brain cells. The connections between the brain cells, it strengthens those.

It also protects your brain against damage as well. And then you have other growth factors. And that includes things like Alzheimer's disease, dementia. They are doing trials right now with gene therapy, giving BDNF. as a possible treatment for Alzheimer's. So there are clinical trials going on right now.

But of course, the better way of doing it is through exercise.  It's through exercise, because not only do you get the BDNF, you get VEGS, vascular endothelial growth factor, that helps grow all the blood vessels as well. And then, and something that we talked about earlier, Denise, clothel, which is this the pretty magical longevity molecule is actually increased by exercise that helps with cognitive function.

But then independent of that, you get neurotransmitter increases. Everybody's heard of endocannabinoids, feel good chemicals, but most of the heavy lifting is done by your monamines, serotonin. Which most people know is important for mood and sleep, you know, you get dopamine increases, which is important for goal directed behavior and motivation.

Then you also get noradrenaline, which the Yanks call norepinephrine, and that's important for mood and focused attention. And then you get endocannabinoids released, and you'll know about the endocannabinoid system and how important it is not just for mood, but lots of cellular processes and then encephalins and then these exerkines are released.

And then in your contracting muscles, You actually release these things called myokines, which are messenger molecules that we've known for decades help to break down glucose and fat and and turn it into energy and then help your muscles get bigger, faster, stronger. But we now know your myokines get bigger.

get into circulation and they have a positive impact on every single organ and every organ system in your body.  Well, that's a, that you would use the word symphony. Yeah. That's pretty incredible. And it is. And I'm just wondering how, I mean, that sounds like a well rehearsed symphony. So for someone who is just starting to get into exercise, Do they immediately get those benefits, or do they need to be at a point of fitness before they actually start to experience it?

No, no, no. You, as, whenever you're exercising, and particularly when you're getting a little bit out of your comfort zone, you are starting to get all of those benefits. Now, what, what happens when people start to exercise, if they go too hard? They'll get a lot of lactic acid. And as you know, there's genes involved, a variant of the BDNF gene.

People don't, don't like intense exercise. So, you know, it's all about coaching people to step into that in the right way. It just reminded me of my first time back in the gym after about five years of no exercise. And I saw the rowing machine there and there was a little plaque on the board with the, uh, with the record holders for the, uh, for the rowing machine.

So you went for it? I'll give that a shot.  I reckon I lasted about 30 seconds, I walked out and threw up. Can I throw another bit in there, because I just, um Uh, I was referring to earlier, I've been on this tour, you know, came back, I'm living in this place. And when I come back, I'm busy. I was so busy before, been sleeping in, I roll over, I can see the waterfall, I can have a swim in the creek.

So there's this beautiful element of rest and recovery, rest and repair. And my, my buddy Kane Johnson talks about the model of high performance or peak performance equals stress plus recovery. Absolutely. And so I'm in the recovery phase, which is beautiful. And I'm thinking this is really healing me. But then I start to go into this phase of going, Oh, I'm noticing like a little bit of muscular shrinkage.

I'm noticing a bit weaker, a bit tired. Um, my energy is not sort of lasting throughout the day. And so I go to the gym yesterday afternoon cause I'm just breaking this pattern. Now I go to the gym in the park yesterday afternoon. And as I walked to the gym, the one we went to this morning, I looked there and everything I looked at, I had the immediate thought of, I don't want to do that.

I don't want to do that. That's interesting. I thought of doing chin ups. And I got back to four months ago doing three sets of eight or ten chin ups with my whole body weight. I'm like 95 kilos. So it's decent for my age, you know, grip strength and all that sort of stuff. And then I come back and I'm like, Oh, I'll start with some, some chin ups up by the end of the, like halfway through the second one, I'm going, I had this feeling inside of me, I don't want to do this.

So I dipped into beyond the rest and recovery. I dipped into this place where you're almost your whole system saying, so you don't live anymore. You know,  , you wanna start dying, you know, you want to start decaying much developing, so, so this is where, this is where recovery goes too far. Yes. And you start to develop a soft underbelly as I refer to it.

This is exactly how I feel. That's very interesting. That's the other side of the coin and something that you talk about where comfort. is killing us, I suppose. Yeah, absolutely. Look, so I think for people to understand this at a really high level, the human genome has not changed in over 45, 000 years, right?

Not no significant changes, little tweaks around lactase, uh, and, um, and stuff like that. But fundamentally there's been no changes. So we have a hunter gatherers genome that responds to the inputs from the environment. And so When the inputs are you're exercising, that's think back in the hunter gatherer days that there is a need for lots of movement, right?

Catching prey, building huts, all of those sorts of things, foraging, surviving, that sort of stuff, right? And so with that stressful lifestyle, um, it will adapt. to that to make you bigger, faster, stronger. When you say stressful, we're talking about a different sort of stress to the ones we experience in the modern world.

Correct. And we can, we can get to that. Right. But, um, so, so what happens is, is we'll adapt to that. Um, but then that hunter gatherers genome is then wired for, taking advantage of comfort. And you can see why that's an advantage. If you live such a stressful, hard life, that when you come back from a hard day, you just want to sit around the fire and chat and relax and eat food and stuff like that.

The problem is that we've taken that hunter gatherer genome and we've plonked it into this modern world where it is no longer suited to it, where we sit, A shitload. We don't move very much at all. Right. And then so we're hunting and gathering on an email. Yeah. Yeah. Emails and, you know, like getting stuff delivered to us, you know, rather than running through the field.

That's right. Yeah. And we don't have to go out and hunt for our food. And there's all of this highly palatable ultra processed food that we know is destroying us from the inside out. And then we have, we are more digitally connected, but less socially connected than we've ever been. And all of this stuff is designed.

to hijack your brain and hit little dopamine hits. All the doom scrolling is all designed around dopamine to get your attention. All the food is designed around dopamine, the bliss point in the brain, certain combinations of fat, salt, and sugar. So what it's doing is taking advantage of our natural bent to seek comfort, which is okay in a really harsh environment.

But then when you that into this environment, and there's what I call new clear rewards around there, um, like around food and doom scrolling and all of that. We get sucked into that. So we have these natural addictions drawn to feels good. Absolutely. And it is a survival mechanism. You're right. Like to be comfortable.

You want your body wants to survive. So you're looking for things that aren't going to challenge you or put you in a situation of harm. So it's an evolutionary thing to protect you. Energy conservation as well. Totally. And even genetically, you're saying, you know, there's this gene environment disconnection, the gene FTO, the fat mass and obesity gene, lots of us have a gene variation that means we're very good at storing fat.

That would have been really advantageous when we were, you know, in times where there wasn't much food. Winter's coming. Whereas now there's food all the time and people are like, well, you know, I'll go through the genetics. Oh, you're one of the people that's predisposed to being overweight. And they might then go, well, hands in the air.

It's like, no, no, no. It doesn't mean that you will be. You just need to actually be a little bit more considerate of the movement of the food because that's going to make you sick. Winter is still coming. Winter is still coming. I have those genes, right? Oh, you do. That I can't tell. That runs through our family and my two brothers are obese.

Right. Right. And so it's not about genetics, it's genes interacting with the environment. Yeah, with the diet, with the exercise. Going to your point then, I mean, I remember Mark Donahoe always talking about we've lost the capacity to eat with the seasons, that  during summer, where the berries are everywhere, we would fatten up on berries.

We would just consume them wherever we found them. And that's natural. And we would build up a store for winter where food is more scarce and draw on that stored energy so that we could get through the winter. And here's the point. Um, we, every human being has a version of the Eurekase gene because we're descended from the great apes.

I interviewed Professor Richard Johnson on my podcast. Um, and we're basically, if you eat significant amounts of fructose, You store fat and that is a survival advantage. But now with all of the high fructose corn syrup and other fructose derivatives that are in our diet, that is why people are really massively putting on weight.

You know, when I went through my master's degree in nutrition, the only fatty liver disease, it was just called fatty liver disease. Now they have non alcoholic fatty liver disease. because of people over consuming particularly fructose, but also these highly palatable, highly processed foods that actually, and this is the thing, they give our brains a reward that it was not designed for.

You know, the sweetest thing in the natural environment is honey. You compare honey, like raw honey, to some of these treats that people eat. Like it is it. orders of magnitude difference in terms of the sweetness. So the impact on the reward system, which then releases dopamine that says more, I want more, right?

That's the key thing. 

Together and they have done studies to show that that lights up the brain more with more dopamine and even studies with mice Where with comparing like things like cocaine and sugar and they'll eventually stop going to the cocaine They just keep going to that sugar fat combination. It's just that much more addictive.

It's really addictive what we call the neurobiology of preference  Fat, salt, and sugar. And when you combine any two of those or all three in specific amounts It's what's called the bliss point in the brain, right? It's well known in research and there are researchers in all these food companies working out the bliss point and Pringles has the strap line for all ultra processed food.

Once you pop, you can't stop, right? And it's because Pringles. It releases dopamine. Dopamine, a lot of people think dopamine is about pleasure. When you're eating those, those, those highly palatable foods, there's other neurotransmitters going, this is lovely. Say you're having a Tim Tam. Dopamine's releasing this going, where's the rest of the packet? 

You have a glass of wine.  Where's the bottle, right? It's about more, more, more. Dopamine is the molecule of more. Can I just ask you a question that's probably a little bit more personal to me, but still in line. So. As it's known, I do suffer from sleep problems.  It's not always, but when I have a really bad night's sleep and I am exhausted the next day, I don't eat, I don't eat carbs.

So that's out of my, but when I have a bad night, I seek them out. And it takes a lot of effort to resist. I, what, what's going on? So when you have a bad night's sleep, Two things are raised the next day. Um, cortisol is raised the entire next day, which makes you crave sugary, fatty and salty food because it's about survival.

And ghrelin is raised the next day, your major hunger hormone. What is then reduced is leptin,  which has a powerful action on stopping eating and voluntary physical activity. That's the molecule of enough. When, when, when they block the leptin gene in mice. They stop moving and they overeat and they become obese within a month.

Really obese in a very short amount of time. It's crazy. So what's happening is those three things are changed in you that then makes you overeat and makes you have a preference for sugary, fatty and salty foods. It's so noticeable and it's so hard to resist A, because the cravings there. But B, I'm getting, I'm having a hypo.

I actually feel my blood sugar is dipping when normally it doesn't happen. I'm normally steady. I don't need carbohydrates of any, any, we're talking like 20 to 50 grams a day, not much at all. Yeah. But when I'm sleepless, I feel hypoglycemic. I feel like I'm craving sugar. It's profound. The feeling. Yeah.

It's just your brain. It's just your brain wanting you to survive. I've been sitting on a question for a while and you keep kind of coming back to it is that you said before by design. Yeah, there's these pro these have been designed to so we know that the companies the sugar companies  Experimenting with that bliss point.

Yes, because they know if they get the bliss point, right? You'll come back you'll come back you'll come back and you'll buy packets of it and you'll  Just got to get those each time. I go back to the store, but also you mentioned like the doom scrolling Yeah, and I Reportedly, I haven't gone right into it, but the Facebook, um, you know, uh, he was one of the executives in the original creation of Facebook and he's traveling the world now telling everybody we sat down and designed Facebook knowing that it would play on your dopamine.

So the short term dopamine cycle, we knew you'd be, become, and they use the word in their original architecture of it, you would become addicted to it. So you would need someone to say, God, you look so, go girl, you look so good in that dress, you know, oh my God, you're looking so good and you come back. Did someone else say that?

What else did they say?  I'll do another photo tomorrow, and then someone else will go, I'll get a bit of that too. And this is what brought everybody into away from true interactions to these surface level sugary based interactions of doomscrolling. And what happens, this, this is really important, so Nora, Professor Nora Volkow, um, from the United States, um, she has showed us very eloquently. 

Whenever you, um, take drugs or have lots of sugar or lots of dopamine drivers, such as doom scrolling, the brain goes, Whoa, this is out of limits physiologically. And what it does is it reduces the amount and the sensitivity of the  receptor dopamine receptors. And that means you need more. Just to get the same feeling.

It's like dopamine resistance, like insulin resistance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's a gene, there's actually  AANK1 that affects the dopamine receptors. And some people are actually at much higher risk of addictive behavior. Most of our studies are actually in alcoholism. Um, and when I speak to my clients and patients, if I see it, I will sort of say to them, do you have a history of addiction, perhaps alcoholism, drugs, whatever it may be, um, because you've got this.

And I would say nine times out of 10, honestly, it's that strong in the family history. But my dad was an alcoholic. Yes, this has happened, blah, blah, blah. But also less studies, but with the same gene, they just haven't focused on food so much. But the ones that have focused on food, we've seen that these people with that gene affecting the dopamine receptor, Will overeat to the point of them actually feeling sick.

Like they don't get the same, the same triggers and they binge eating. They're actually more likely to have true binge eating disorders. Ever wondered what a healthier, stronger future you might look like with Melrose Future Lab, Australia's first longevity supplement range. You can now optimize your health span routine by supporting cellular energy.

metabolic well being and muscle maintenance, as well as much, much more. And you can find this range at Chemist Warehouse and leading health food stores.  And on top of that, one thing that is really concerning for me, and you'll be all over this, Denise, is the. Epigenetic mechanisms. So we've known for decades that if one of your parents was an alcoholic, you're much more likely to be an alcoholic and not necessarily because of the genes, but because of the epigenetics.

So if we think, to simplify it, genes are the hardware, the epigenome, epi is on top in Latin.  It is the software to tell the hardware how to run. So you're more likely to be born predisposed to addiction. Right? Because of those environmental influences. But that's not destiny though, is it? No, no, no. It's not destiny at all.

And genes aren't destiny. Genetics loads the gun. Yeah. And the environment pulls the trigger. But that gene is being switched on with that epigenetics. Yes, correct. And Denise could go into much more detail on that. And we can change it though, for the listeners. I mean, it's not always easy. Um, and maybe not for this podcast, it could be a different one, but even with us testing methylation epigenetics last year, we saw a profound difference in three months through diet and lifestyle.

It's more dynamic than what I realized now that we have the ability to actually both of you have got your tests, you haven't done them yet, the epigenetic  testing. Thanks for embarrassing us on,  we've been sitting there for about six months waiting for us to do it. I'm not embarrassed because no one knows it's six months until you said that.

Do it. Do it. I don't think anyone even knew that you,  I've just revealed my embarrassment, but it's more dynamic than I realized when I learned, first learned about it. You know, we learned that these, you know, methyl groups, one of the epigenetic factors that sit on the DNA, a very robust, you know, every time the cell replicates, you know, new, new cells made, it would, this exact, you know, pattern that these, these things sitting on the DNA would, would mimic the exact same one.

But we now know that's, that's not true. Very, very, very quickly. These things can be influenced by trauma, good things and bad things, but big stresses and trauma will have a profound effect on epigenetics. You can come back from it, but you need to do all the things that you're going to be talking about in that resilience space and stepping into that world of comfort. 

Which we obviously all are programmed to do is really the worst thing that you can do. Well, let's talk about then that other side of the coin. So we just mentioned. The question first is that I think I, in my mind, it came up as working with other people, it's, we get caught in what I call the sugar survival cycle.

You know, we just hook back in. We need some sort of a sugar, a scrolling sugar,  some actual sugar, it could be some sex or some gambling. It's some sort of sugar that props us up. And then we need more of it to go over and over again. Like. In your, for the person who's listening now, how would someone know that they're caught in this?

What are the common ways that, you know, I might've said something just then, but what are some of the common ways that people recognize that potentially I've got what Denise is talking about, but I'm certainly getting hooked into this? Ask your friends. Right. Because we often, we, we justify our own behaviors.

Right. And, and you'll go, oh, yeah, and you get very defensive around it as well. Right. But for me, a couple of things to know, right? If you're.  If you pick up your phone before your feet hit the floor. Yes, in the morning, you got a problem, right? And then go and check your phone and look how many times you pick it up.

You can do that in the in the screen time settings. If you're picking up your phone 80 plus times a day, you got a problem. This is a great metric. 80 sounds like a very low bar. That sounds high to me.  Certainly, I mean, 80 is a low bar, isn't, oh my God. If that's a lot. Yes. That is. That, that, that is a lot.

And a lot of people pick it up. 40 a I would more than a hundred times a day. Right. And then, and just looking at your diet if, if more of your diet is stuff that has not been alive. You can look at it and go, Hmm, Mr. Krispy Kreme donut. I don't remember seeing you running around on four legs.  It's not only that, it's like breakfast cereals, protein bars, all of those sorts of things.

Yeah, that's right. Then there's issues around it. Right. And if you are on a screen right up until you go to bed, that's another sign, right? And then if you're not exercising regularly, that's another sign. So my thing, when I looked at the gym equipment and I went, uh, uh, uh, um, that's a sure sign that I've hooked up.

Myself into a cycle where I'm not attracted to it. In fact, I'm repulsed by it. I did it. I actually did a small amount to introduce myself to it because I knew the benefit and I felt great straight after it. But I'm like, wow, I haven't slipped to this point for a long time. And so that's another thing.

What happens? You become. Apathetic. Yes. So that's exactly what you were describing, Trevor. And this is what we see when people are living that sort of a lifestyle just because of all of those, not just the epigenetic mechanisms that Denise talked about, but just your metabolism, right? You are actually destroying your mitochondria.

Right. You know, we know what we overconsume fructose particularly, but ultra processed foods, it creates an energy crisis in the mitochondria in your cells, right? And then you're impacting upon your brain chemistry, right? So if you're eating shit food and you're not exercising, you're playing Russian roulette with your mental health.

Wow. That's what I like. You cannot expect to be in good mental health. If you're not hitting at least the bare minimum of the exercise guidelines and eating a good diet and having good sleep hygiene, like good luck having good mental health. That's one of the most powerful things I've heard in a long time.

If you're eating shit food and you're not exercising, you're playing Russian roulette with your mental health. And this is the thing, this is what I get. That's like boom. I get more and more frustrated. Like I've got two kids, so I'm very passionate about the kids stuff, right? And, and I will say to parents.

And I said it yesterday on a workshop, like when a, an adult says to me, I'm okay with drinking alcohol, taking drugs, eating shit food. I know the consequences. I'm like, that's cool. But when we kill our kids, I've got an issue with that. Right. And, uh, Lots of people are killing their kids by feeding them this ultra processed food diet.

We now know that in the United States and in the UK, 66 percent of all calories consumed by teenagers are ultra processed crap. So that's not processed food, that's ultra processed. These are things that are in packets full of sugar, full of preservatives, chemicals, flavors. So look, a processed food would be stuff like this.

canned fish, canned vegetables, um, yogurt, cheese, artisan sourdough bread, right? So there's minimal processing. Ultra processed foods, typically five or more ingredients, um, made by large scale industrial processing. And they often have a combination of them. It doesn't have to be all these things, but Preservatives, flavor enhancers, colors, emulsifiers that make them feel amazing in the mouth.

And they're made from food like substances and constituents of food, not real food. Chemicals. Food like substances and constituents of food. Yeah, that's right. And, and, and that's what, but look, I make it really simple for people. That's great. Low H. I. diet. H. I. stands for human interference. Can you see, if you're looking at a piece of food, deciding whether or not you're going Has this food been alive recently? 

I can know that it's grown out of the ground, come off a bush or a tree, it's run around on two or four legs or swam recently and been minimally interfered with by humans, then it's low HI and that should be 80 percent of your food. The other 20 percent is your treat food. And if it's chocolate or ice cream, buy the best damn quality that you can afford and savour that.

But don't fill your body full of ultra processed shit. Cause the evidence now, like there was an Umbrella Review just produced showing convincing class one evidence that these foods are are increasing our risk of cardiovascular disease death by about 50 percent, increasing the risks of anxiety by 48 percent, and common mental health disorder by 53 percent.

53 percent. 53 percent. So let's think of these kids, these teenagers, are having such terrible mental health about if we're similar to the UK and the United States, which I think we are because we are in the top six consumers of ultra processed foods, right? We need to do a national survey on this, but let's assume around two thirds of the calories are from this crap.

We know it changes the gut microbiome. It causes an energy crash in the mitochondria. It changes brain function in a negative way. And then when they're not exercising and we know only 2 percent of teenagers hit the recommended physical activity guidelines, right? That combination, and then the doom scrolling Like, that is the devil's triumvirate.

Good luck having good physical and mental health if that's the inputs going into the system. So, when we look, well let's stay with Australia, when we look at our teenagers and the crisis of anxiety, the epidemic of anxiety, that I'm a parent, I know lots of parents, they all have kids, teenage years, to know a parent whose child doesn't have some sort of anxiety disorder is uncommon now these days.

Is that Is that the result of what you're talking about? I think it is. It's a huge result of it. I'm going to throw one other thing in here. Um, so, so as you said, the result of processes, 48 percent increased risk of anxiety. We know that that having low physical activity is a massive increased risk of anxiety and poor sleep is another massive increased risk for anxiety.

But what I think is also a factor, Right. And this is a bit controversial. Um, now I, I'm not a qualified psychologist, said I'm doing a PhD in psychology, but having immersed myself in this world in the last couple of years, I think there's too much talk about feelings and emotions. And Are you okay? And are you anxious?

I've got a, this is at the young age, a daughter. Yeah. And the young age, they're talking about my anxiety. Mm-Hmm. What we're doing is we're medicalizing feelings. Right. And, and, and, and la lack of, or, or, or medicalizing poor feelings. What we used to call worry is in our anxiety, right? Mm-Hmm. But what happens is that when you're constantly talking about it, um, that's what your brain commits sales to, and that's where the focus goes on.

Mm-Hmm. So I think there's. far too much therapy going on now. I think we've overcorrected. There's too much talk about are you okay? And it's okay not to be okay. There's too much talk about anxiety and particularly with young impressionable Children who are looking for a sense of identity and what they're starting to see maybe consciously or maybe subconsciously identity and attention attention and attention and seeing all of the things other people getting attention, and oh poor you, because of my anxiety.

So I think And they become victims. They become professional victims, start me on the victim stuff. Yeah. We, we, we are. We've started you. We are. We've opened a Pandora's box on this one. Well, let's do a podcast on victimhood then. It is this toxic victimhood. You know what I say with people? Let's go. Right.

With all this victimhood and people are going, Oh, this person's got it better than me. And oh, woe is me and all of this stuff. Right.  If you're past the age of 27, you have outlived the average human being in the 1650s. That was the life expectancy in the 1650s. If you have a constant supply of food, you've got a roof over your head and you've got running water, you have it better than 99.

9 percent of Homo sapiens who have ever walked this earth. How about you compare yourself to them, not the people who have it marginally better than you, right? We have it easier than all of our ancestors, yet we are going through this mental health crisis. And I've got a little feeling that, uh, As you move higher up the, the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, we become much more sensitive to the whole mental health issues, right?

Because when people don't have real problems, like in Sudan right now, or in, uh, in Gaza, or anywhere around the world where this stuff's happening, when we don't have real problems, we make shit up. That's what happens. But then when there's all this talk about it and and there's all this and you know That's that a lot of this like the psychological interventions is about me me me me me Yeah, so who's doing what to me and what happens so in Japanese psychology, which my wife's a practitioner of They say that the most powerful thing that you have in your control is the flashlight.

I'm going to use this the flashlight of your attention, right? And I think the issue now is that people's flashlight is being shown in their own heads for long periods of time.  and struggling with their, their issues, struggling with the fact that I'm not getting enough likes on social media. And then when you throw in a brain that's not working well because of shit food and lack of sleep and lack of exercise, it's just a disaster. 

Yeah. It's also like I often refer to this as service to self, right? But it's really service to a self, a self that I've. established or identified. I did a, you know, a  life mastery talk with these guys. And I talked about my whole story of how I wanted to have attention and be loved and liked and all this sort of stuff.

So I became the guy, you know, the winner. And then I got all the attention, everything else. Cause what you focus on grows, but the double edged sword was now I'm the guy, but I'm actually not really myself. Um, I'm this thing, this parody of myself, it's always winning and my hair got longer and blonder and, you know, The muscles stood out more and I was hanging out with more famous people or whatever else because that is the way I molded my persona to survive in the world that I thought I needed to, I needed to become the winner.

Yeah. And so whether we want to become the victim or the champion or like whatever it is, this service to a, to a self and the self is manufactured because we're sitting there going, no one's paying attention to me. So I will actually create some attention for myself by, Oh, they, they seem to pay attention when I cut myself. 

They paid attention when I ran away and did that thing that they didn't want me to do. Oh, I have poor behavior. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and these are horrible things. I'm not being discompassionate towards them at all. I'm just saying, wow, it's a trap. And it's this psychology has wrestled us down and gone, Hey, why don't you just try this to get a bit of attention?

Yeah. And if you get attention, then you're popular. If you become popular, then you become, you've got some sort of a power or influence or whatever. So there's a whole, once again, designed world.  that's drawing our kids in to this false sense of self. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's also the rise of the individual that started off with American culture that has, has really sort of spread around.

I'm not blaming the Americans, but it's just about me, me, me, me, me. And you know, how much can I earn and how good can I be? And social media is all, look at me, look at me, look at me. It's all about the cult of the individual. when actually we are supposed to be functioning, contributing members of a tribe.

That's what we are designed for. But we are ultimately members of a tribe. But whether or not we're functionally contributing is a whole different story. The problem is that we wouldn't be here. I don't think we would look at where we are at the top of the food chain, taking over the world. This is not because we are the fastest animal, the strongest animal, the, the, you know, the strongest teeth.

I mean, look at humans compared to other, Animals, we have done it because we have come together, we're problem solvers. We work together. We collaborate. Yeah. Someone's ingenuity. Someone's muscle. Yes, yes. However, that is becoming so disjointed. Absolutely. Well, look, that, and Denise touched on this word, you touched on this word, and I suppose it's the other side of the coin, and that word is resilience.

So everything we've discussed seems to be the opposite of that. Can I just say something on that first? Because your book that you wrote is called Death by Comfort. Yes. So before we go into resilience, that's what, everything you've just spoken about is we want all the things we want to get. And when I get them, I'm now in comfort.

Yes. You know. And it's more and more and more and more and more. More and more and more. And now I'm, I'm, so basically we've built a rod for our own back or we're killing ourself with what we've desired. Yeah. So the Buddhism thing of desire is the, is the great killer. Absolutely.  So, before we get into resilience, just one, any final things around where we've ended up, because we have to break out of that cycle, right?

We have to find ways to not be in that cycle, not get drawn in it. And this is the tricky thing, and I alluded to it a little bit earlier, is that when your metabolism runs awry. Right. And what happens, your motivation goes in the brain and it becomes really hard to pull yourself out of that hole. That's the thing.

When, when you are metabolism, just all of that input is, is just, is destroying your ecosystem, your motivation to get out of that, the drive to get out of that becomes really, really hard. That's why people get stuck in a rut. And then. With when we understand the neuroscience of habits, you know, the brain creates habits to create shortcuts.

It's got these heuristics on. We continue to do things that don't serve us well, just because they're baked in to the brain, right? And there's so many things that people do on a daily basis that are just automated. So it's becomes harder and harder and it's like a vortex that you get sucked and pulled down from and it becomes really hard to get out.

And that's why some people then as they get lower down, I call it the whirlpool, and they need help to be able to get out of it. And you need a really strong internal drive. And that's why when me and my wife work with people around this, it's about. Um, finding your purpose and, and, and identifying your values and then living true to your values.

Your reason to get out of it. That's right. So that's the compass telling you to stay in it. That's right. So you've got to have a bigger thing than that. So you need to create a vision that people were prepared to work for. And I think motivation is probably not the right word. It's got to be true to them.

Yeah, but it's something that wakes them up. This is something that I do want. And therefore I'm willing to experience this discomfort. What is my calling here? Is there, do, do we, do, do they know somewhere deep down what they want to do? Why they're here for? We talked about it a little bit earlier in the last podcast, you know, that sense of purpose, or is it someone else like their child or, you know, they're doing it for something bigger, their family.

Um. What will happen to my kids if I don't change this? How will I be around my grandkids if I don't change this? Where am I going to end up? How will the world be? You know, can I make a difference in the world? Something bigger than yourself.  So part of the part of this whole process, I think we should teach kids right from a young age.

The first principle in life, life is hard.  Always has been, always will be. Don't try to not make it hard. When you try to make life not hard, that's when you get in trouble. So if we start from that principle that life is hard, You need to fight. You need to fight for yourself. You need to sometimes really dig deep, right?

Epictetus, the historic philosopher, summed it up. He said, We must all undergo a hard winter training and not enter into lightly that for which we have not prepared. And he was talking about life. Right. So that's, if you start with those two first principles, life is hard. You have to be prepared to do the work.

You are going to experience pain. You're going to experience suffering and you need to work your ass off to be successful in life. And just the fact that you're alive, you're so goddamn lucky. It's something like 42 trillion to one that you were actually born. Right. So I like to start from that. I mentioned in the last video, Podcast that it, you know, scientifically, it's almost a miracle that everything comes together and you are born and you are a human, let alone that we're all born on this planet.

Yes.  The fact that there's the universe even started and that they are starting, like when you start to look at the odds, it's a miracle. The odds are ridiculous, right? So let's start with the miracle. And that's why I've got a tattoo that says momentum worry. Remember death. Remember that you are mortal.

So that every day I look at that and I go, how fricking lucky am I just to be alive, right? If we start from those principles, I think life would be very, very different. And if I teach our kids, I also think we need to talk about. The joy, like obviously I think what you're saying is right because life isn't easy at all.

Yeah. And when you're born into something and everything's handed to you, you're expecting it to be easy, then you can't do, you don't have the resilience, which is what you're going to talk about. But at the same time, there's so much love. and joy and pleasure in life as well. 100%. 100%. Yeah. So, so one thing I, I put on that is gratitude.

Gratitude and combining gratitude with awe. Right. And it was my wife who nudged me into the awe thing. Um, but often I'll turn the tap on and I'll just be doing something, get, have a shave or something. I'll turn the tap on and then I'll step back and I'll go, how fucking cool is that?  Running water. Yep.

Right. And then occasionally I'll turn a light on. I'll go, How does that happen?  And then you get out into nature and it's like, if we would just slow down and take the time, there's so much all around us. And then if we layer gratitude over that, it just becomes a game changer psychologically. Yeah. Our, our house is on rainwater.

This new place we've gone to. Oh cool. Yeah. Yeah. And it's a good size tank. But when we first got there, it's like two, three weeks later, there's no water.  And then it's like this appreciation, take something away, like your health or your water, your running water, because we ran out, hadn't had rain in that period of time.

And it fills up super quick when you get rain. And so it blew my mind the other day when we finally got rain, but all of a sudden you're like, you're looking at it and you turn that tap on. Not only is it incredible, but as it's going down the drain, you realize it's a really valuable resource, you know?

And so. We're capturing it and you wet your toothbrush, turn it off and da, da, da, da, da. And then you have a shower and you know, you lather up and, and so it's a whole family have started to become better humans because one thing that we've had to stay true to is we've got a limited resource of this water.

So all of a sudden it's being trained into our brain that a resource is something that you value. Yeah. You don't just spit it out and oh, you pay for it at the end of the three months or month or whatever your water bill. So we don't have a water bill anymore because it's all, all rainwater. But so I had this very.

you know, um, human thing of like running water. And then I was thinking about it, thinking how incredible it was. And I walked out the front and this green and gold butterfly, which I've never seen, only exists out there, came and landed on the leaf right in front of me. And I'm like, that's another level, like where did that even come from?

And it's moving from, and you know, they've got these charges where they, the, the, The, the pollen has a charge to it and they know whether there's pollen in there or not. Oh, right. Oh, that's pretty ever seen, um, the work that, um, David Attenborough's done on the bees, as the bee approaches the, the pollen, there's a signal.

There's a positive and negative ion charge and if, once the pollen's gone, it changes its charge to let the bee know, don't land, don't land. I've got nothing for you. That's so cool. It's insane. So the beer will go along. No, no, no, no. I'm open. You know, I've got one for you. Yeah. This, I love that story and, and it, it brings, it brings to home, um, what the stoic philosophers used to say. 

If you can't feel gratitude, go without, right? So sleep on the floor. For a few nights, you'll bloody appreciate your bed. Go for a day without running water, you'll really start to appreciate that running water. So I think the issue is not just comfort, but abundance, right? So we also have this abundance where we are not appreciating the stuff that we used to appreciate.

And that really got brought home to me. when I did combat survival and resistance to interrogation training, which was 10 days of pretty hardcore stuff in the military. But now every single night, and I've done this for 30 years, when I lie down,  I remember being on combat survival training in the freezing cold in the middle of winter in the U.

K. with no sleeping bag. And I lie down and even if I've had a shitty day, I go, how friggin awesome is a mattress? And a pillow and a dooner. Well, that sounds like a strategy. So you mentioned resilient. I suppose what you said was the foundations of understanding resilience. Life is hard. Everyone needs to understand that.

But surely we need some strategies in order to cope, in order to deal with, in order to to actually thrive under those conditions. Do you have strategies that you use? Yeah, look, absolutely. So, so one thing and stuff that a lot of psychologists won't talk about is that a lot of resilience has to be earned, right?

You've got to earn resilience from doing hard stuff, right? And the reason that's important is that we know that if we're  all  presented with a difficult situation,  Some person may view that as a threat, and somebody else may view that as a challenge.  And you, with your athletic background, would tend to automatically view it as a challenge.

And an opportunity. And an opportunity. Now, when you view something as a threat, what we know, you activate a different part of your nervous system. You activate the HPI axis, which releases cortisol. Right. So it's bad for your car. No, no, no, no. The SAM axis. When you say, Hey, that's a challenge that activates the SAM axis, the fight or flight sympathetic adrenal medulla.

And that releases adrenaline and noradrenaline rise, which is nature's way of, of leaning in. Right. But what also happens, it has a positive effect on your cardiovascular system. But the half life of adrenaline and no adrenaline is one to two minutes. So very soon that stress response is gone. Whereas cortisol, if you view yourself as a threat, the half life of cortisol is over an hour.

So that means, and you know Denise better than anybody, that the ravages that long term high cortisol creates, right? So that mindset of challenge or threat is massive for resilience. Now, what the research shows is that you are much more likely to view stuff as a challenge if you know you have the resources and the ability to deal with it, right?

This is where the whole positive thinking stuff goes awry. You need, yes, you need to have positive thinking, but you also need to have the belief that that you can deal with it. How do we get that belief and confidence? You'll know from sport, you get confidence from doing stuff, right? And knowing that you can rise into it.

And that's why, you know, this helicopter parenting where we're trying to pull our kids away from stress is a disservice to them. We need to talk to them about the challenge and leaning in and then whenever they've done it, even if they failed, You know what? I love the fact that you lent in, right? I love the fact that you gave so much effort there praise effort and character.

Don't praise outcome. So that's one way that parents can get into that. But it's also about reflecting on your victories and and so that you then have that burned into your head that you have that ability. So process it. Yeah. And that, that, and it's really important that you have to do that. And the research shows reflecting for about 10 to 12 seconds starts to then burn it into the brain.

Right. So that's one strategy is around the mindset, but we also have to do the hard winter training so that we are confident in ourselves to be able to do that. Right. Um, and then it's about  Again,  another mindset thing would be growth mindset from Carol Dweck, which is actually a spinoff from the hardiness research, which we can talk about a little bit later on.

But it's that whole thing that I can become good at something if I work hard enough. And that's where The praise of the parents and the teachers come in where you praise effort, you don't praise outcome.  So saying to your kids, or you don't praise talent. If you said to your teacher, oh, you're really good, you're really talented at that.

What we know, even if they are talented, when they get to, um, um, senior school, their peers start to catch up with them. When they get to university, they get better. They get past because that whole belief then starts to become, um, successes about talent. And if I'm not, if I'm not talented at something, there's no point in working at it.

So having that approach, that growth mindset that I can become good at anything if I work hard enough, that is really key for resilience as well. And then looking back on mistakes as an opportunity to learn. When I was in the military, Every single time we flew an aircraft sortie, we did a debrief, without exception, and debriefing what went well, what didn't go so well, what could have gone wrong, so, and when a mistake happened, not only did we learn from the mistakes, but then Everybody heard about the mistakes, right?

Um, anytime there's a, there's an incident in the, in, in the aircrew world, in the, in the British armed forces, it was promulgated out to all of the armed forces and the aircraft captain had to read that incident before they could sign out from the aircraft. So the, the aircrew culture was you learn from other people's mistakes because if you wait to learn from your own, you could be in trouble, right?

And it could be the wrong time to learn. Could be the wrong time to learn. So I think there, there's a combination of those things, but yeah. I think the other thing that is really important for resilience is getting your mind in the right state. And that's where I like to talk about the fundamentals, the fundamentals of exercise, the fundamentals of, of good nutrition, of good sleep hygiene.

Like these are really, really critical so that your brain is operating in the right way. Yeah. So it's a complicated process. I, I actually like to talk. I don't, I don't just talk about psychological resilience anymore. I think that's a misnomer. I talk about psychophysiological resilience, right? Because it is all one, isn't it?

One cannot be separated from the other. I tell you psychology massively influences physiology, but I think physiology has a bigger influence on psychology.  You're starting to see the rebound, like how it comes the other way.  So, I was going to ask, just on that point, so we're talking a lot about kids and how to set the foundations to ensure that they are resilient through life. 

For many of us as adults, we haven't gone through those buildings, building program, whatever else. Yes. Many of us don't have the resilience that we would like to. Is it too late or can we build it at any age? You can, you can build it at any age, but, but you need to do certain things. So, and, and, and again, I'm going to come back to it, a critical component of it.

Is you got to do hard stuff. You got to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. I'm a big fan of cold showers and cold water exposure. Right now there is there's currently debate about you know how much physiological benefit do you get from these things? What's the right dose and all of that? For me, a lot of it is psychological, right?

It's just about  getting comfortable with being uncomfortable, to turn that lovely warm shower to cold for 30 seconds, or to get into that cold swimming pool, or if you want to go extreme, to get into the ice bath for a minute. Um, because we know what I did when I got excited that second time and. you know, went under.

And then I had that, you explained it to me, that the mammalian dive reflex. Yeah. Cause I sucked in all the ice and then it came and it was like out my nose and too excited. Um, but what I would say to people with the cold shower stuff too, because I work with some people that have got, you know, they've burnt out autoimmune stuff.

Um, you know, adrenal issues is that sometimes we need a moment of kind of, I guess, nourishing before we get into some of those stresses, but the stress is definitely part of it. So once you've built up a little bit of resilience through nutrition, through sleep, through, you know, making sure there's no deficiencies in sort of all the, all the nutrient stuff, getting the good food in, then with those cold showers, cause the stress has to come in, um, starting with just what you can, even if it's five seconds  and building up, building, building, building.

That's a really good thing. The the when you do hard stuff, the stress that you expose yourself to has just got to stretch you a little bit. If it stretches you too much, it can have a negative effect. And then there's the concept of progressive overload, which, Trevor, you will know this very well from your training.

You then have to progressively overload the system, right? So if I have them all, I mean, this is that's how we adapt, right? So if I was was being your trainer when you decided to go in, I would be saying,  Danny, we ain't going to go for the rowing record. We're going to come in. I'm just going to push you a little bit out of your comfort zone.

And at the end of that session, I'm going to go. No, that hurts. Don't do that. Only because you did a good session. Yeah, I'll go, man, that was pretty freaking awesome. Go home. And be proud of yourself. You did really, really well today. And I'll see you next week. I already feel good about myself. Great effort.

I didn't even do it. He's making me feel good about myself. And the next time we come in, it'll be a little bit harder and a little bit harder. And then we'll be tracking your progress, right? And giving you feedback. Because one of the things that we know that Biggest driver of long term behavior change is self efficacy.

The belief that what I'm doing is making a difference. That is hugely, hugely important. That, yeah. And that just then builds your confidence and it builds your drive and your motivation to do more. But then again, we'll come back to the whole thing about Purpose and values. So we sit down with our kids once a year and go, okay, what does it mean to be a tailor? 

What what are the values of being a tailor right and our kids will come up with we health we're healthy We we eat well, and we challenge ourselves, right? And so we have these set of values and I think every single person should have a set of values. So for me One of my key values, the reason I don't drink like the Irish ex military guy that I like to drink like now, I was going to say that, but the reason, particularly as I got a little bit older and we know things get harder and now recent research has shown that there are a couple of phases of aging at around the age of 44 and the age of 60.

And then we think it's the third one out of about 70 yet. Yeah. So, uh, you know, it gets harder and, and then I'm like, you know what, I got to pull back on this stuff. And a bit, and for me tapping into the value of authenticity. So that's a really important value of mine. You and I had a lot of chats about this, like, cause you know, we're very social people.

We like to have a drink. We did the healthy aging study that was out there. Protocol that I had was a maximum of two standard drinks per week.  drinking altogether. I felt phenomenal. You reduced, you'd already started, but you reduced your drinking. And I think, correct me if I'm wrong, you said something like, I'm drinking less now than I have since I was 16 or something. 

But, um, you were still drinking a little bit, but you definitely brought it back. But you also are someone that doesn't experience hangovers.  I've got the Irish liver gene.  So I've done, I've looked at his test results and he doesn't have any negative epigenetic changes linked with alcohol. It's phenomenal.

Which if, if you ask any of the people who know me would be completely astounded by that. It's a form of resilience, isn't it? It is. So it doesn't get hung over, you exercise. I guess there's so many things going on. And so I also have a thing. It was my, my wife has just always been like, my God, how do you do it?

Like no matter. And I used to, I still give it a nudge every now and then. Don't get me wrong. But  even if I give it the biggest nudge, I would always get up first thing in the morning and I'd thrash myself physically in a workout. And I, cause I had that thing. Don't let one bad day turn into two bad days.

And that's what I struggle with. So.  Gym. Absolutely. And because I do struggle with sleep one night, I can manage two bad nights. I'm really struggling. Mm. Three nights in a row and it can all go to pot. It just, it goes the right and, and it's not just one day that I miss at the gym. It's the week. Yeah. And then as you said, it gets harder.

The, you get, you get most in the year, you get down into the vortex of darkness, right? Yes. And look, that's the vor of darkness. That's maybe something that, that. kind of got instilled or reinforced in me in the time of the military. But, um, I, I interviewed a guy on a podcast, um, Paul Watkins the other day, great guy, um, public speaker, amazing athlete.

Uh, and he said, cause he's, he's one of these ultra endurance cats, right? He does crazy shit. And I was talking to him about discipline. That's the word that a lot of people don't talk about enough when we talk about behavior change in habits. And he said something that I loved. I view discipline as an act of self love. 

And I'm serving my future self and I'm like, that is frigging awesome. That's really cool. Um, one of the things that I'm noticing from everything you're talking about, it's almost like an undercurrent that just stands out in everything is that everything you're talking about, whether it's embracing the challenge, rising to the discomfort, you know, um, like getting out of the comfort zone and being uncomfortable, whatever it is, it's, it's Like, that all says to me you have a relationship with what's occurring.

So that's occurring, and it's an opportunity for me or a challenge, and there's a relationship I can have with this that will better me, and I've got a rise to it. So you're actually involved in it, it's in your circle. The other opposite way you said it is that we're actually rejecting it. We're saying, no, I don't want to, I don't want to do it.

I don't want to be anywhere near it. So we're actually saying not in my world. I don't want to be involved in this. So I kind of get this real undercurrent of relationship, which is where we're part of the whole universe and life's interesting and incredible or individual trying to control the environment to do the things that suit me and serve me and make me comfortable.

And yeah, what I like to say to people often is the universe doesn't friggin revolve around you. Yeah, it really doesn't revolve around you and lots of people want the universe to revolve around you. And we all see the universe through our own eyes, right? And we also, not only do we see it through our own eyes, but we don't perceive reality directly.

We perceive reality through the mirror of memory. Right. So we have this very personalized. I like to say to people, your brain is running a personalized hallucination of reality.  And then we try to bend it to suit our needs. Right. But then if you're to do this, the whole stoic zoom from above, right, we're all having a personal experience in this room.

But then if we start to zoom from above and then we start to look down on Richmond. There will be lots of people who are having an argument. There'll be people in tears. There'll be somebody who's on their deathbed. And then when you zoom out even further, there'll be hundreds of people on their deathbed, hundreds of people having wonderful experience, hundreds of people having shitty experiences.

Someone's designing how they're going to invade a country. Someone else is actually thinking how can I keep the people. And the further up you get. Then you just realize, you know what? All we are is a little ball of energy and that energy is Interacting and bouncing off other little balls of energy. So one of my things is why don't you be a positive influence on on others Why don't you just embrace life with all its warts and all and and again a stoic thing But also Viktor Frankl said, you know, you know, we we all get to choose You how we react to our circumstances.

You don't get to choose your circumstances, but everybody gets to choose their own attitude to choose your own way. And that's why I choose to have the relationship with stuff and to lean into stuff. I love the big picture of what you're saying also, because if we did go right out and we saw us as little balls of energy, what we also know from studying blood and studying all sorts of different cellular things is that We can actually go around as a ball of energy and activate that ball of energy over there. 

So all the lights are coming on all over the place, bing, bing, bing. And then there's other balls of energy that are trying to go and shut back, dip, go back to sleep. Like you talked about designing before things that actually put us in that trap, you know, so there's all this. There's this intention to serve life and there's this intention to control and own life and restrict life and profit from life.

And so there's, there's two energies just playing out. So I often think to myself, well, what's it all for then when we're all so small, but it's like, ah, hello mate. And he lights up. And, and here's, here's the thing that Viktor Frankl said. So this whole, what's it all for? What's the purpose? You create your own meaning.

In life, we have to create our own meaning. There is no fucking purpose fairy that's going to come along and drop your purpose and mission. Yeah, exactly. It's like we have to create our own meaning, right? And it's something that's true to you because when you do it, you feel like, oh, that's aligned with me.

I feel activated. I love that. Know the truth and the truth shall set you free. You do something, it's like taps into your core intrinsic values and you feel great. I was like, do more of that. Yeah, that's right. Two more people up and this is where I like to get people when I'm running workshops to do a tombstone statement, right?

So think about what you would like to be written on your tombstone that would actually represent you in your life, right? And my tombstone statement came from a time in the military. We maybe talk about this on the other podcast when eight mates of mine got killed in a helicopter crash. And I decided I wanted to do something different.

And I'd been writing a, a, a, a blog just around health and well being for, for the squadron. Cause that was my secondary role, sports officer. I remember an old chief came past me and he said, um, that newsletter you wrote, he said, that was awesome. Uh, and he said it had a real impact on my family. Thank you.

And he walked away and just something inside me lit and I went back into the office and I wrote, uh, a tombstone statement. It said military man turned educator to help others with their well being. Wow. And I've now tweaked it to military man turned educator to help others be better versions of themselves.

Right? So that becomes a driver for me to do all the research, to create the programs, to do my talks. But also help out my friends, my family, that sort of stuff. But you live it as well. So I've got a question then is, well, what is your routine? What's your routine? We've got to get you to your meeting and we're going to have you back because we've got more masterclasses to do with you.

What's your routine? So, so my routine, I'm not one of these people who are extremely rigid around stuff. Fair play to them, but that I will, uh, I get up in the morning, I will always exercise every day. Sometimes I do it in the morning, ideally if I'm not traveling. So my routine is different if I'm not traveling.

If I am traveling, first thing I'm up, I'm in the gym, uh, in a hotel gym, I'm always doing a workout, right? Because it just sets me up for the day and at home, I'll maybe bring my dogs out for a run. That's generally what I'll do. And then I'll do my resistance training later on. So, uh, Exercise is pretty fundamental to me.

Um, my, uh, and then we tend to have, we live by the same rule, the 80 20, uh, in terms of, uh, of diet. So most of the stuff that goes into my mouth has been alive recently and minimally interfered with by humans. My, um, my weakness is dark chocolate. I have dark chocolate every single day.  It's got, it's got some positive tell you, when Green and Blacks 85% stopped selling in this country, me and my wife almost committed suicide.

Right. Stop. It was about a year ago. Stop selling. It's the best chocolate in the world, so we're now on to lint. 90%  . Uh, but I will, I I will do, don't let that victimhood creep. No, no, no. I have a cold shower. Every day. So at the end of my shower, I'll turn it to cold. I have saunas. I would like to do saunas more, but I'll probably have saunas three times a week.

My wife is better than me. Infrared or regular? We have an infrared barrel sauna, right? I think probably there's a little, there's a bit more evidence around a Finnish sauna, but I think the, the infrareds are pretty damn good. Um, so they tend to be the things I do and I'll, I'll research every day unless I'm busy and I'm traveling.

Um, so, but I try to. Stick to that routine as much as possible when I'm traveling, but the non negotiable for me is exercise. And then we had a protocol last year, like with supplements included. Did you end up, obviously we, you did take the supplements routinely. Did you notice a difference, like an edge or you didn't notice much of a difference?

Look, I didn't notice much, but I think I was reasonably well functioning anyway, right? Uh, and so I think they, can have a more significant difference. And I had been taking the hearty supplements and stuff beforehand. Because I felt it, because I had it, I, I was. It's phenomenal. And even when it comes, I mean, another podcast, but even like perimenopause stuff, I was having a few things before.

That all stopped when we were on the healthy aging study. Things have come back. I don't know if it was because we were doing that protocol or if that's how it is for me because it's so different. But I felt phenomenal. I'm going to get back on it. But anyway, I just thought I wondered if the supplements gave you a bit of an edge because there are things in that that should fuel the mitochondria as we age, we have less NAD, less CoQ10.

But. The other thing is when you're eating really well, when you're exercising, when you're not getting all those toxins, it's likely that you might still be running really efficiently. For me, we think about this as a pyramid, like exercise and good nutrition and sleep hygiene, they're the base of the pyramid.

And, you know, the kind of supplements is the cherry on the top, right? So, you know, if your base isn't great, I think the supplements can, can really help or if you're improving, the supplements can really help. But I think if you're at a, at a good level, you may not notice it, but I still take them because I'm, I believe in them and I know the research is there and I'm thinking the long game right with this stuff, because I want to be, I want to be in my nineties, out playing golf, come home, play with my kids, have dinner with my wife, have a glass of wine, go to bed and don't wait a gallon.

And don't wake up, right? Okay, so we give you, let's say we're all working on longevity. We've got to move you on for you. Healthspan, a longer life, better functioning. So if you got another 10 years out of life in your 70s, 80s, 90s, which you've just mentioned. Yes. Why would you want it? What do you want to do with it?

Trouble. Yep. I am a frustrated backpacker.  Haven't seen it all yet. 60 odd countries in the world. I want to hit 100 before I die. And when, as soon as the kids are out of the home, me and my wife will be traveling. I would be traveling 12 months a year. But as my wife has rightly pointed out, we still need to see the kids.

Me and my wife will come and meet you wherever you're going to. Because we're the same, we're the same.  Where do we find you mate? What, what can people, where can people come for sure? Probably the, the best place that people want to hear more is the Paul Taylor podcast. That's pretty easy to remember. And my website is  paultaylor.

biz, B I Z. Uh, I think I'm shit on social media, but I think, uh, Instagram I'm at paultaylor. biz. Uh, and that's pretty much it. And you've got a book for people that want those strategies too, you know, death by comfort. So where you go through all of that. Yeah. And I'm. I'm writing another book. Oh, another episode.

Yes. Another episode. Love having you, mate. Thank you. It's been great. It's been a great conversation. World of Wisdom. I will definitely be watching this again because I really want to learn from everything. There was so much that you said there. So I really thank you very much. Pleasure. Thanks for having me, guys.

Thanks, man.